Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 10:50:49 GMT

From: Just Say No to Mental Illness Ray (unknown)

rk: I draw reader attention to the signature of the anonymous poster "JUST SAY NO TO MENTAL ILLNESS RAY UNKNOWN". The poster is using an established mind control *key* that has already been widely promoted through past incremental media campaigns. "Just say no" to drugs. "Just say no" to alcohol. "Just say no" to mental illness.

rk: Do you think it is a coincidence that such one-liner slogans are used by mind controllers to key certain actions in suggestible ignoramuses? I'm sorry, folks, but there is no kind way to put this. If you lack the awareness to understand just how you are being controlled in your daily lives by these mind control experts, you are indeed IGNORAMUSES.

rk: It doesn't matter whether you live in a nice house, drive a nice car, wear nice clothes, eat well and have money in the bank; for those are just temporary "perks" designed to keep you sedated until they pull the *rug* out from under you.

rk: Such *rugs* take many forms.

rk: It may be the *rug* of war -- transforming you and your surviving family members into instant refugees, homeless, with nowhere to go, frantically trying to get out of "harms way."

rk: The *rug* may be that of a controlled famine through disruption of food deliveries to your local food stores.

rk: The *rug* may be the selective insertion of man-made viruses into target populations no longer seen by leaders to be of utility to them.

rk: The *rug* may be the systematic stripping away of all you have worked for throughout life -- only to transfer such wealth to established organizations through catastophic illness or legal means.

rk: Watch what happens when the Stock Market crashes or food deliveries come to a halt. You may have money to buy food, but find there is no food to be bought.

rk: Watch what happens when everything you have acquired has been offered up as collateral for loans through a usurious credit system and the loan is "called in" at your greatest point of vulnerability, leaving you as no more than an "indentured slave" in servitude to your creditors.

rk: These situations happen all the time in various parts of the world, yet "dumbed-down," sedated ignoramuses who have been conditioned to "believe" it can never happen to them, slumber away their lives blind to the "writing on the wall."

rk: A man walks among you. He tells you to wake up. He tells you to pay attention, to be aware. to take back control of your country; to take back control of your life, to hold your "public servants" responsible for their malfeasance, and if necessary, to take back your money so that you stop being the supporting factor which enables their corruption.

rk: He does this publicly for five years, attempting to awaken his slumbering brothers and sisters from their mind-controlled, hypnotic sleep.

rk: Yet, at the same time, Government/Media sponsored/supported mind controllers/disinformation agents have waged an unrelenting campaign to shut this individual down, to prevent him from posting his messages on the Internet, to disrupt serious communication, to libel, defame, not only the man but also his wife.

rk; Do you perceive such an event to be a matter of mere fiction? An impossibility because we, as Americans, live in the "Land of the Free, Home of the Brave", where Justice is open and administered equally to all; a land where the law we live by cannot and will not allow this kind of criminal behavior to be sanctioned and supported by its own goverment/media?

rk: Sorry folks, but only in a BASSACKWARD society can such a fiction be "tacitly supported" by ignoramuses.

rk: The Internet "in your face" anonymous mind controllers taunt their targets while they flaunt their immunity from prosecution openly and boastfully on these newsgroups. Read the post below. See if it doesn't challenge your sanity with statements which categorize such WAKE UP calls as a sign of "mental illness" manifesting as mere "Bitching about this state of normalcy..."

rk: Yes, I wrote the words attributed to me below by the anonymous Disinformation Agent "Just Say No to Mental Illness Ray unknown." It was at a time when I viewed the audience I was addressing on the Internet as intelligent beings who had the awareness to grasp the simple Truth when it was presented to them.

rk: Unfortunately, I miscalculated the influence of the BASSACKWARD environment which has grossly affected their then and present state of consciousness.

rk: Nothing has moved them to intelligent action. They have remained inert and fearful. Unable to find their collective voice. Unable to overcome their long-term indoctrination. Unable to demand that their Public Servants do the job they had sworn an oath to do.

rk: All one need do to confirm this is to study the evidence which underlies my shocking but TRUE statements. If procrastination or inertia does not overcome you, this issue of Government/Media Mind Control/Disinformation on the Internet can be seen in its entirety in the archives of DejaNews (that is, unless the government gets there first, orders the documents destroyed, and/or decides to rewrite history).

rk: Such research will allow you to observe first hand, the effective STONE WALL of SILENCE which has been erected by your Federal officials in order to keep you sedated and "dumbed down" sufficiently long for a phony crisis to be created, Martial Law declared, FEMA called in and backed up by Foreign military Troops supplied by the UN, and our US Constitution to be dissolved, never to return.

rk: Thus will be the end of the United States of America and the beginning of the "New World Order."

rk: At long last ignoramuses will get the enslavement they have worked so hard to bring about.

rk: Has anybody noticed that our Federal Government's STONE WALL of SILENCE regarding Mind Control of the Internet still remains intact?

rk: Isn't anyone curious how such a thing can even be possible in a Government purportedly "of the People, by the People and for the People"?

rk: Isn't anyone curious as to how/why NOT ONE PERSON other than myself, in a land populated by 260 million people, has publicly asked this question of their Federal officials and demanded a PUBLIC answer to this Government/Media sponsored/supported INTERNET MIND CONTROL issue?

rk: If that is not evidence of MIND CONTROL, NOTHING IS!

rk: Are you folks really that DUMB?

rk: Are you folks really that INERT?

rk: Are you folks really that IMPOTENT?

rk: No, this is not some kind of a test that will be graded on a curve, for certainly that would only add to the present INSANITY.

rk: It's a test that you as human beings must PASS or FAIL!

rk: Before you vote in November, find out who you will be putting into office. Find out whether their sworn oath of office means anything to them.

rk If I haven't ticked you off yet by bursting your bubble of "security," read on. You may see just how BASSACKWARD this society is when anonymous Disinformation Agents openly label as "Mentally Ill" one who demands that his government officials be held responsible for their actions/inactions.

rk: Read on and you will see how you contribute to the insanity of our society by remaining mute and inert, allowing anonymous cowardly, shadow skulking Disinformation Agents to write things on the Internet like: "Bitching about this state of normalcy is akin to complaining about the fact that grass is green, gravity exists, and the government has a right to yank your driver's license. "

rk: Yep, you're normal all right. Every single, solitary, BASSACKWARD-oriented ignoramus one of you, at least when considered by the standard promoted by the Disinformation Agent (below) for determining what is normal!

rk: Unless you WAKE UP, you are going to get exactly what you deserve.

rk: Those of you capable of rising above your seething upset at being inescapably mirrored in this post, read the suggestion at the bottom of this article. Your time is running out!

unk: Waste of Human Life

unk: You DO realize Ray that you've lost literally YEARS of your life to this inane obsession, don't you? Just to bring it home a little, read through the following, see if you can discern any difference between it and the crap you s**t out daily now, and NOTE THE DATE AT THE BOTTOM. Hell, isn't it, to have lost your very life to mental illness, huh Ray?

That's life on the big Usenet.

Bitching about this state of normalcy is akin to complaining about the fact that grass is green, gravity exists, and the government has a right to yank your driver's license.

Dr. Hell Toupee Master Baiter High Councilor of the New Usenet Order

Tim Hill is a disinformation agent, otherwise known as a propagandist, a spin doctor, or as generally known in political circles as a dirty tricks operative. His function is to create dissention and division and to keep the schisms between peoples going. He is a political and media tool. He and his cohorts known as the AFAB bullies, named for their base of operation at the alt.fan.art-bell newsgroup concentrate their disinformation tactics on newsgroups which are tied to radio talk shows, paranormal, and militia groups. He and his fellow hatemongers cast the energy of dissention whereever and whenever they can while hiding behind a host of aliases to create the illusion of numbers supporting their momentum. Their methods are ridicule, libel, forging posts, and cheap shot ambush tactics designed toward character assasination.

There is presently a momentum underway to umask them and those who employ them through an FBI investigation. Their time is over. They, unfortunately are just too dull in intelligence to see it. -- Ray Karczewski (05/01/98)

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

Reply

10/03/2000

Was: Truth and Intellect - Light and Dark - The Sighted and the Blind

Midwinter midwinter@no.mail.please wrote:

Raymond Karczewski arkent@internetcds.com wrote in message news:39d95f2c.43355835@reader.meganews.com...

rk: > > "Daft assumptions, eh?" Poor attempt at misdirection. is it not? If one accesses the Town Square Forum at the URL listed below, they will find that the above format line as to "sender" is the common and routine formatting used for all posts displayed on the Town Square forum.

rk: > > It is curious that you should claim it to be written by another when your signature line is at the bottom of the article; i.e.

> m: "-- ama semper quisquis noces

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

midwinter "

rk: > > Sloppy coverups such as this do not bode well for the future of a disinformation agent who gets his deceptions, lies, and misdirections all mixed up, do they?

m: Okay, last response to you, Raymond - I address this one because I can see why you have become confused. I agree that my signature does appear at the bottom of the article.

rk: Confused? "In your dreams," midwinter, "in your dreams!"

rk: As I have always stated, Truth is self-evident. It cannot be arrived at through the blind use of linear thought. Your failed attempt to create hypnotic spells through your "effort" to downsize the holistic vibratory level of infinite consciouness to a "safe," manageable level of fragmented, linear intellectualizing is not effective when applied to the "Spiritually Sighted." Did you learn the lesson of this relationship?

rk: Reread the entire thread between us. You have merely demonstrated that you are but a "blind intellect" attempting to put out the eyes of one who possesses spiritual sightedness. Why? To make the environment of consciousness into an "even playing field" as perceived via the limited perspective of a power oriented ignoramus. You learned a lesson, but didn't like the lesson you learned. Hence, the "kitchen" was too hot for you.

m: I do not know why since, although you of course won't believe this being in touch with the Truth as you are, I have never posted to Town Square, and until you provided the link I had never heard of it.

rk: If you will reread the post, you will find that I was merely expressing what was observed. It was you who sought to obfuscate the issue with constant linear misdirection.

m: However, this article undeniably contains my signature.

rk: No s---, dick tracy!

m: I'd like you to read the article again carefully, Ray. The poster here (possibly you, for all we know) has quoted an article I have already sent to the alt.religion.christian forum.

rk: If you are trying to make the case that there are deceptive Disinformation Agents who prowl these Internet newsgroups/forums for the sole purpose of creating confusion, attacking, maligning, defaming, obfuscating, forging, controlling the flow of information through intimidation, and every other trick they may pull out of their "dirty tricks" bag, you'll find that that is the very issue I have been bringing to the attention of these Internet newsgroup readers for these past five years. It can be summed up in three words -- MIND CONTROL TECHNIQUES.

m: The text is there almost in its entirety, including the signature. Check back through a.r.c posts and you will find this exact reply here.

rk: What that will show is that your article was posted to two different newsgroups/forums under two different names, which you have already admitted to doing in the past and according to you, will continue to do in the future. So what is your point?

m: I only post to Usenet, although I'm sure you "know" better, don't you?

rk; I "SEE" you still insist on attempting to create the element of "DOUBT" concerning that which is self-evident to one who is "clear sighted." Is that not the very basis of mind control?

m: You would prefer to believe (yes, "believe") that I'm a disinformation agent posing as multiple people (yet stupid enough to use the same signature), than that someone has simply quoted something I posted?

rk: Belief has nothing to do with it. Your words are smooth, You soothe, you schmooze, you seduce, you sedate, then you toss out, via suggestion, traumatic zingers when you feel sufficient groundwork has been layed to effect the hypnotic spell you seek to weave. Bread-and-butter hypnotic technique, is it not? It is commonly found when dealing with diabolical intellects (diplomatic types) bent on asserting control and power over those they consider to be "easy, suggestible marks." Hell, watch any political election campaign for a lesson in hypocrisy. In fact, tune into the US Presidential debate tonight. If that doesn't "knock your socks off," nothing will.

rk: Who knows, some Journalist who rediscovers his integrity might even ask the Presidential Candidates on the National TV debate about this issue of GOVERNMENT/MEDIA SPONSORED/SUPPORTED MIND CONTROL/DISINFORMATION AGENTS conducting mind control experiments upon unwary users of the Internet and the FBI's STONEWALLED INVESTIGATION? It would be the perfect opportunity to test the integrity of our Presidential candidates and the "MEDIA," would it not?

m: As I've already explained, I don't intend to address you again.

rk: At least not under the name "midwinter," eh?

m: Your affliction, whatever it might be, has distorted your world-view beyond recognition and I don't think continued discourse between us would benefit anyone.

rk: Why do you assert another to have an affliction if you are unable to see clearly "whatever it might be?" You see what I mean about hypocrites and "zingers," and ultimately their exposed ignorance?

rk: On the contrary, there has been tremendous benefit to all the onlookers when they are able to observe hypocrisy and its impotence showcased in the Light of Truth.

m: I wish you well.

rk: I observe your well-wishing to have the same contaminated essence of hypocricy as the rest of your words. You're slick, "midwinter" -- BUT NOT THAT SLICK!!

Ray Karczewski

-- ama semper quisquis noces

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

midwinter

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

Reply

Unknown Complainant

Raymond Karczewski

rk: The following appeared on the Oregonian's Town Square Forum

See: http://www.oregonlive.com/forums/townsquare/

rk: Attention FBI, How far does this have to go? Just what does it take for you folks to do your Job?

The following libelous attacks arise from the keyboards of ed wilkinson and other assorted anonymous government/media disinformation agents who, through disruption, intimidation, and character assassination control the flow of information on public Usenet Newsgroups/Forums

# 17597

Ray we are coming to Help.

Re: Town Square (New Admin)

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:51:34 GMT

From: Concerned Citizens United (unknown)

How The Civil Commitment Process Begins

1) The commitment process may be started by a county health officer, a judge, or any two persons filing papers in court. Or, the process may be started by a doctor or community mental health program director ordering a person to be held involuntarily in a hospital. ORS 426.070; ORS 426.228 through ORS 426.234.

2) When the papers are filed, the CMHP program must send out a mental health investigator to interview the person and others who know about the person. This investigator advises a judge whether or not to hold a court hearing. ORS 426.070; ORS 426.074.

Who Can Be Committed?

A person can be committed if after hearing from witnesses a judge finds by clear and convincing evidence that the person has a mental disorder and, because of that mental disorder, is:

Dangerous to self or others, or Unable to provide for basic personal needs like health and safety. Or, the judge can find that a person is:

Diagnosed as having a major mental illness such as schizophrenia or manic-depression, and Has been committed and hospitalized twice in the last three years, is showing symptoms or behavior similar to those that preceded and led to a prior hospitalization and, unless treated, will continue, to a reasonable medical probability, to deteriorate to become a danger to self or others or unable to provide for basic needs. ORS 426.005; ORS 426.130

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ray we suggest you do not speak.

Re: Ray we are coming to Help. (Concerned Citizens United)

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:56:40 GMT

From: Concerned Citizens United (unknown)

What Happens At The Hearings

1. Witnesses testify. The attorney for the allegedly mentally ill person, the attorney for the state, the mental health examiner and the judge may ask them questions. The attorney for the state will call witnesses to testify about why the person is mentally ill, dangerous to self or others or unable to provide for basic needs. A person alleged to be mentally ill also has the right to call witnesses to testify. ORS 426.095(3); ORS 426.100(1)(d).

2. The mental health examiners usually ask questions of the person alleged to be mentally ill and they will give the judge written opinions about the person's mental condition. ORS 426. 120.

3. The person alleged to be mentally ill or the attorney may cross-examine the witnesses, the mental health examiners and the investigators. ORS 426.095(3)(c).

4. The person alleged to be mentally ill can testify and can have witnesses testify for him or her. The attorney for the state can cross-examine any of these witnesses. 5. The attorneys should make statements to the judge about why the person should or should not be committed.

6. After hearing all the evidence and reading the conclusions of the mental health examiners, the judge must make a decision whether the person should be committed.

#17610.1

..and your point is...???

Re: Internet Terrorism (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 15:16:27 GMT

From: Please explain... (unknown)

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

Reply

John,

Thank you for your comments. Please forgive my posting this on my website bulletin board ( http://www.arkenterprises.com/dialchst.htm ) It needs to be said publicly. When I am able to post this to the newsgroups from my local server I shall do so. I have been blocked from posting articles on usenet for the last 24- plus hours, even though I am able to receive incoming articles. My calls to my server's technical support unit have gone unanswered. I have been able to post only limitedly through Deja News and to a local Oregon off-USENET forum.

I have removed all traces of your identity from this communication until such time as you permit me to release it.

Isn't it time that folks like you found your public voice and express what you see unfolding in our country instead of preparing for armed revolution?

It is easy to "demonize" one man, while an entire nation remains silent to the Injustices endured by others as long as it has not yet come into their home. My input on the Internet, which has invited these kinds of govenment/media- sanctioned attacks, has been to demonstrate what individuals can do in holding their government responsible when they find their heretofore "government-muted" voices. It also shows the repercussions for doing so. Simply stated, it is the implementation of the age old technique of control known as "Divide and Conquer!"

I hope that you and others will find your public voices and speak out. Let each of us stand alone, not as an organized group, but as a sea of individual voices, expressing ourselves to an unheeding leadership bent on selling out our Constitutional form of Government to a "New World Order.".

A group can be controlled by our government. But millions of vocal taxpayers, voicing their concerns, each standing alone, creates an energy that cannot be stemmed by any government.

Turn away from an already growing momentum toward a bloody revolution. Let's do this one in such a way that government cannot do anything else but bow to the VOICE of the people.

dear sir,

At 09:18 AM 10/4/00 -0500, you wrote: upon reading some of the work within your website , i see that the silent majority is awakening in america.

i'm a postal worker and a union steward. you would be pleasantly suprised to know there are many vets who know alot of what you know.Although we dont stand up and forcefully make the goverment conform to the true constitution.we do know the constitution has been in effect"done away with".

we talk about it daily and know there will be another revolution here.and many veterans will join to enforce the constitution as it should be.i have seen the youth who are also aware of the propaganda of our goverment and the minipulation of the media.

my fore fathers were the people who made and died for the constitution. and it may come to that point again.thank you for having the strengh to fight the true fight.

Reply

Anybody care to hire an anonymous "Lawyer?" You may contact "Unknown" Attorney at Law. See Below: I suggest you hurry before he's disbarred!

Following are the latest responses to my post "America's Spiritual Revolution: Let the Ammo be Truth" posted this date, 10/04/00

Keep in mind, the surge of libelous comments below are in response to my sharing "John's" comments about the "awakening of the silent majority in this country.

All I have to say is that you folks who are the "silent majority" had better damn well wake up and break your silence while you still have a Constitution to wake up to.

These types of attacks (below) are what can be expected when any resolute citizen "rocks the boat" and decides to hold his government officials responsible for their blatant *Malfeasance* in office.

You folks of the "silent majority" still slumbering in your own hypnotic *La-La-Land* are being treated to the cold, hard, "Facts of Life" regarding government and media -- not the hand-fed, positive-imaged election pablum slick PR types are serving up to you during this Presidential election campaign.

For a solution to the problem, see my sig line at the bottom of this post.

The following libelous attacks arise from the keyboards of ed wilkinson and other assorted anonymous government/media disinformation agents who, through disruption, intimidation, and character assassination control the flow of information on public Usenet Newsgroups/Forums

Free Legal Advice for Ray

Re: America's Spiritual Revolution:: Let the Ammo be Truth (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:44:43 GMT

From: (unknown)

Ray, I'm a lawyer and have seen commitment proceedings. They're awful to witness, usually hurtful to the person being questioned, and surely something you want to avoid. I'm not even sure rehabilitation is facilitated once someone is committed against his will. Mental patients tend to resent the interference too much to be helped by treatment, and to understand it as retaliation on the part of family and friends. Help yourself before anything like this could possibly happen: if you are locked up, you'll be so for a few weeks minimum, and possibly quite a bit longer given the severity of your disorder.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: Free Legal Advice for Ray

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:53:17 GMT

From: (unknown) There is a world of difference between voluntary and involuntary commitment. Please listen Ray, it is the TRUTH bringing the message to you. Other Christ's Ray, looking out for another Christ.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More Germane Info from the JoCo Mental Health Dept.

Re: America's Spiritual Revolution:: Let the Ammo be Truth (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 20:52:07 GMT

From: Sounds Like Ray Through and Through (unknown)

DELIRIUM/DEMENTIA Delirium is an organic mental syndrome that is acute or short term. Delirium is characterized by the impairment of cognitive functioning, a reduced level of consciousness, attention abnormalities, increased or decreased psychomotor activity and a disordered sleep-wake cycle. Delirium is linked to physical illness and/or biological changes in the brain such as brain damage, infection, vision and hearing impairments, malnutrition, cerebral disease. Psychological stress, sleep deprivation, sensory overload can worsen delirium. People with delirium generally make a full recovery, progress to coma or death or transition to dementia or behavioral disorders, affective disorders or psychosis. Delirium is often confused with depression, dementia or a mental disorder. The most effective treatment is to reverse the underlying cause of the delirium. Some medications are helpful to treat the behavior problems sometimes present with delirium.

Dementia is a more long term presentation of cognitive deficits that include memory impairments, aphrasia, apraxia, agnosia and disturbances in higher cognitive functions that are due to the direct physiological effects of a general medical condition. Dementia is a condition that is chronic and manifests a progressive deterioration of intellect and memory and communicative functions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another CCU Message

Re: America's Spiritual Revolution: Let the Ammo be Truth (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 20:53:16 GMT

From: Concerned Citizens United (unknown)

How The Civil Commitment Process Begins

1) The commitment process may be started by a county health officer, a judge, or any two persons filing papers in court. Or, the process may be started by a doctor or community mental health program director ordering a person to be held involuntarily in a hospital. ORS 426.070; ORS 426.228 through ORS 426.234.

2) When the papers are filed, the CMHP program must send out a mental health investigator to interview the person and others who know about the person. This investigator advises a judge whether or not to hold a court hearing. ORS 426.070; ORS 426.074.

Who Can Be Committed?

A person can be committed if after hearing from witnesses a judge finds by clear and convincing evidence that the person has a mental disorder and, because of that mental disorder, is:

Dangerous to self or others, or Unable to provide for basic personal needs like health and safety. Or, the judge can find that a person is: Diagnosed as having a major mental illness such as schizophrenia or manic-depression, and Has been committed and hospitalized twice in the last three years, is showing symptoms or behavior similar to those that preceded and led to a prior hospitalization and, unless treated, >>>>will continue, to a reasonable medical probability, to deteriorate to become a danger to self or others or unable to provide for basic needs. ORS 426.005; ORS 426.130

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Depression in the Elderly (JoCo MHD Info)

Re: America's Spiritual Revolution: Let the Ammo be Truth (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 20:56:41 GMT

From: Maybe this is part of your problem Ray? (unknown)

DEPRESSION IN THE ELDERLY Depression is not a normal part of aging. Depression in the elderly is not a normal response to other aging concerns. Just as in younger individuals, depression is a disease that can be and should be treated. Generally, the same interventions that work in younger individuals, work in the elderly. The elderly do need special consideration with regards to an increased sensitivity to medication, concurrent medical conditions or concurrent psychiatric disorders such as dementia. Depression in the elderly can be a symptom of dementia, bereavement, dysthymia, adjustment disorders or anxiety. The elderly are at risk for depression if there is family history of depression or previous episodes of depression. Medical problems, lack of social supports, substance abuse and financial and other life stressors also contribute to depression.

80% of the elderly with depression will recover within two years and most within 6 months with treatment. 75% will relapse within five years and may require maintenance treatment. As in younger people, the prognosis improves with social support and is worsened by medical problems, stress, isolation and financial troubles. Recovery for depression in the elderly is the rule though and not the exception and effective treatment can be found for nearly all patients. Treatment should include plans for staying well given the risk of relapse is 50 % after one episode of depression, 75% after two and 90% after three episodes.

Treatment includes medication, ECT(which is not the horror it was in the 50's, by the way), counseling and social interventions. Patient preference, family history and prior response is key to help determine the best course of treatment.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Get out Ray

Re: Depression in the Elderly (JoCo MHD Info) (Maybe this is part of your problem Ray?)

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:27:00 GMT

From: TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER RAY (unknown)

See the middle paragraph in this post. Remaining isolated with only your computer for society can only lead to worsening psychiatric problems. Get a part-time job, get the people off your back about your tax-dependant status, and regain some self-respect.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The evidence is overwelming Re: America's Spiritual Revolution:: Let the Ammo be Truth (Raymond Karczewski) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 20:59:47 GMT From: we suggest you do not speak! (unknown) What Happens At The Civil Commitment Hearings

1. Witnesses testify. The attorney for the allegedly mentally ill person, the attorney for the state, the mental health examiner and the judge may ask them questions. The attorney for the state will call witnesses to testify about why the person is mentally ill, dangerous to self or others or unable to provide for basic needs. A person alleged to be mentally ill also has the right to call witnesses to testify. ORS 426.095(3); ORS 426.100(1)(d).

2. The mental health examiners usually ask questions of the person alleged to be mentally ill and they will give the judge written opinions about the person's mental condition. ORS 426. 120.

3. The person alleged to be mentally ill or the attorney may cross-examine the witnesses, the mental health examiners and the investigators. ORS 426.095(3)(c).

4. The person alleged to be mentally ill can testify and can have witnesses testify for him or her. The attorney for the state can cross-examine any of these witnesses.

5. The attorneys should make statements to the judge about why the person should or should not be committed.

6. After hearing all the evidence and reading the conclusions of the mental health examiners, the judge must make a decision whether the person should be committed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's for the Best Raymond

Re: America's Spiritual Revolution: Let the Ammo be Truth (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:00:10 GMT

From: Be well Raymond (unknown)

rk: I have been blocked from posting articles on usenet for the last 24-plus hours, even though I am able to receive incoming articles. My calls to my server's technical support unit have gone unanswered. I have been able to post only limitedly through Deja News and to a local Oregon off-USENET forum.

The Internet is just making you sicker and sicker Raymond, and it is probably best that you not post until you consult with a doctor about your worsening problems. Yo've been given a series of texts from the JoCo Mental Health Department that seem to speak to many of your symptoms: read those carefully and will something better for yourself than fear and hatred. God bless you Raymond.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your mother is a whore Ray, did I ever tell you that?

Re: America's Spiritual Revolution: Let the Ammo be Truth (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:03:22 GMT

From: Xual Gerg (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Leave Adult Matters to the Adults Ray

Re: America's Spiritual Revolution: Let the Ammo be Truth (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:20:38 GMT

From: For now, you have some meds to take (unknown)

rk: But millions of vocal taxpayers, voicing their concerns, each standing alone, creates an energy that cannot be stemmed by any government.

What does any of this have to do with a tax parasite like you Ray? Does this guy know you have been living off taxpayers' money for decades, have refused to work all that time, and lost what money the government gave you gambling in Nevada? Does he know you spend your time begging for alms because of your gambling habit? Your "energy" old man is sheer aggression, unqualified arrogance and ignorance, and umitigated hatred for the humanity you leech off. Call the JoCo PMHD now, and leave adult political matters to responsible adults.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Don't Make Them Call You Ray

Re: America's Spiritual Revolution: Let the Ammo be Truth (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:33:06 GMT

From: You DO have a phone, don't you? (unknown) JOSEPHINE COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT CLINICAL SERVICES Crisis Services - Emergency Phone Number 541-474-5365. Crisis Services are provided 24 hours a day to anyone experiencing a Mental Health Emergency

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Only takes 2 Ray, 2 only 2

Re: America's Spiritual Revolution:: Let the Ammo be Truth (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:38:37 GMT

From: CCU (unknown)

1) The commitment process may be started by a county health officer, a judge,..... or any two persons filing papers in court.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

Reply

Are you unknown, perceptually challenged/limited users of low level mental mechnanics watching Yugoslavia?

Its just a reflection of the revolt that is building against your collective mind set.

Reply

The headlines below were taken from the Matt Drudge Online Report on Oct 5, 2000. http://www.drudgereport.com/

This is the dualistic, thought-based, Hellish world of violence, corruption, and exploitation "civilized man" supports with his tax dollars.

It is fueled by the same "Satanically driven" Intellect with its fragmented, soul-destroying energy my attackers, the Government/Media sponsored/supported mind controllers/Disinformation Agents/Internet Provocateurs have worked so hard daily for the last five years to perpetuate on these Internet groups/forums -- and they call me "Nuts?"

Meditate on this *wake up* word folks...."BASSACKWARDS!!"

"Demonstrators Storm Yugoslav Parliament Despite Tear Gas..".

" Gore's Embellishments Persist... "

" Nuns are driven to suicide by Chinese torture... "

" OCTOBER REVOLUTION: PROTESTERS STORM YUGOSLAV PARLIAMENT... "

" Priceline to close gasoline and groceries Operations... "

" '20/20' INVESTIGATION FINDS UNPRECEDENTED NUMBER OF DEMOCRATIC CONTRIBUTORS ATTENDING STATE DINNERS... "

" The United States closed all its embassies and consulates in the Arab world on Thursday for four or five days for fear of violent demonstrations... "

The following libelous attacks arise from the keyboards of ed wilkinson and other assorted anonymous government/media disinformation agents who, through disruption, intimidation, and character assassination control the flow of information on public Usenet Newsgroups/Forums

Problem is...

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:49:55 GMT

From: Portrait of Ray Karczewski (unknown)

You self-indulgent crap doesn't even begin to address the probelms and violence that are an everyday occurance in this world. You and people like you, who sit back, don't work, preach to everyone about things they know nothing about, and feel self-righteous though they contribute nothing at all to help stop such problems, only perpetuate them, usually to some self-serving end. **This is your portrait Ray.** You haven't done **one damned thing in your life to counter any of this;** instead you live off other people's money, **attack lawyers who try and work FOR justice,** and teachers who try and educate people out of aggression and hurtful behavior. This is why people say you're nuts. You're a self-serving leech, who never did anything worthy of respect, and you somehow think that posting a few headlines about things many of us have devoted our lives to eradicating, makes YOU enlightened? At least we make a real effort to help people, and we work damned hard to do so; we don't just sit back, demand society pay for our living, and then attack everything in sight: if you ever do anything to actually change the stuff in your post, perhaps someone somehwere wil have some respect for you. But we sure don't now. I, for one, have spent my life fighting such stuff and am in no way prepared to let some tax fraud lying self-indulgent ass like you sit there and tell US how evil we are. You have no iudea how hard I work on behalf on people who are hurt and need help: **who the hell are you to preach to me, you unemployed, prevaricating, aggressive, jerk?** Here's that vital information for you again Ray: shut your mouth until you make fundamental changes in your petty bourgeois smugness:

JOSEPHINE COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT CLINICAL SERVICES Crisis Services - Emergency Phone Number 541-474-5365. Crisis Services are provided 24 hours a day to anyone experiencing a Mental Health Emergency.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

You're in no position to "wake up" anyone, you idiot

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:51:17 GMT

From: Do something USEFUL in your life first (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And what have you contributed to help stop all this?

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:52:23 GMT

From: NOTHING, not ever -- that's what. (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey Ray, why should anyone take you seriously?

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:54:43 GMT

From: (unknown)

Sitting down there in Cave Junction reveling in your fantasies of persecution means nothing in all this. Grow up and do something to act on your owns words before you tell anyone else how evil they are.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah we call you NUTS

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:55:31 GMT

From: Because you ARE NUTS (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Way out for Ray

Re: Yeah we call you NUTS (Because you ARE NUTS)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:56:13 GMT

From: (unknown)

JOSEPHINE COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT CLINICAL SERVICES Crisis Services - Emergency Phone Number 541-474-5365. Crisis Services are provided 24 hours a day to anyone experiencing a Mental Health Emergency.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Impotent ass

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:55:47 GMT

From: (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Shut Up for God's Sake Ray

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:03:13 GMT

From: Call Robert Beckett and then we'll talk (unknown)

No one needs any advice from some fat, smug cretin in Cave Junction.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Leav it to Ray

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:11:01 GMT

From: You're all Conceit and Passivity Ray (unknown)

Only Ray would have the sheer nerve to sanctimoniously lecture the rest of humanity about such problems, that he himself *read about* on his computer. Ray shut the damned machine off and get a life. Maybe if you did so, you could *do something* to make things better, as opposed to simply making a spectacle out of your own conceit and passivity.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Amen: turn off your compute Ray and LIVE for a change

Re: Leav it to Ray (You're all Conceit and Passivity Ray)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:12:16 GMT

From: Can we block Ray's Rants, like Usenet? (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Check the title of Ray's post here

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:12:51 GMT

From: At the Very Top of the Irony Meter Folks (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Meditate on this *wake-up* word, folks...."BASSACKWARDS!!"

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:15:17 GMT

From: Ray "Consummate Irony" Karczewski (unknown)

So you, who've been dead asleep to reality for decades, are telling US to wake up? You and your wife are filthy and disgusting parasites and should save your sermons for yourselves.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So what are you" some bloody Milosovic sympathiser?

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:42:29 GMT

From: You live on your knees Ray (unknown)

At least the Serbs had the courage to stand up to the man; you, you just sit back and WATCH IT ALL. Impotent is an understatement in your case. Go to hell.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Blackjack Address for Ray Karczewski

Re: Town Square (New Admin)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:28:16 GMT

From: Some Use for Ray's Computer (unknown)

O.K. Ray: you're obviously so f**king sick you're refusing all constructive medical attention; if you're not going to do anything to help yourself, go hog wild and wipe yourself out. Here's an address I'm sure you'll find extremely useful, given your inclination towards self-destruction and gambling: http://www.blackjackcity.com/ Just shut up for God's sake Ray, O.K.?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Never say die Ray

Re: Blackjack Address for Ray Karczewski (Some Use for Ray's Computer)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:29:03 GMT

From: There's Still Hope for Even You Ray (unknown) JOSEPHINE COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT CLINICAL SERVICES Crisis Services - Emergency Phone Number 541-474-5365. Crisis Services are provided 24 hours a day to anyone experiencing a Mental Health Emergency.

Josephine County Mental Health Program Robert C. Beckett, Administrator 714 NW A Street Grants Pass, OR 97526 Phone: (541) 474-5365 Fax: (541) 474-5366 Website: http://www.jcmhd.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Don't Relapse into Gambling Problems

Re: Never say die Ray (There's Still Hope for Even You Ray)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:38:47 GMT

From: USE THIS INFO TO HELP YOURSELF MAN (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Don't Worry

Re: Don't Relapse into Gambling Problems (USE THIS INFO TO HELP YOURSELF MAN)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:46:21 GMT

From: No job, no credit (unknown)

No one will give this guy credit since he refuses to work, so he can't use the site no matter how much he feels compelled to do so. But do shut up anyway Ray: you should have gained much more wisdom in life than this by now, and it's too abject to watch someone of your age conduct himself in such an infantile manner.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nearest thing we can figure is that he was born this way

Re: My! My! What an odd little piece of genetic damage (How long have you had this condition?)

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:48:44 GMT

From: Ray's Mother (sorry for my son folks) (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lady, we told you to get that guy back on his leash

Re: Nearest thing we can figure is that he was born this way (Ray's Mother (sorry for my son folks))

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:49:43 GMT

From: Control your kid lady!! (unknown)

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

Reply

10/07/2000

dirt (darksight@earthlink.net) wrote;

Raymond Karczewski wrote;

Saul Paul wrote:

rk: Here are my comments to "dirt" followed by a couple of typical, routine responses from the Internet's spiritual "peanut gallery."

rk: It seems that anyone with a semblance of intelligence lacks the courage to face such blatant ignoramuses on these Newsgroups/forums and so has left this last bastion of Freedom of Speech in the hands of the violent, the confused, the stupid. One only need look at the world they have carved out for themselves through such "thinking."

rk: When one admittedly lacking in understanding face-savingly covers his ignorance with judgments like "meaningless" because his filtered perception of the Truth being communicated is unable to grasp its True Significance, one immediately sees the impossibility of such a level of consciousness ever capturing the Infinite Ocean of Intelligence in the tiny "thimble" of that person's Intellect. The fragment, thus unable to grasp the whole of the Truth being communicated, launches ad hominem (personal) attacks (kill the messenger) because they cannot attack (kill) the Message. Hence one must pay attention to their use of flawed language in twisting "meanings" so their own level of ignorance may be obfuscated by illusions of "cleverness." Read the responses below. You will see what I mean.

rk: Below, one finds "professed" Christian "saul paul" aka "no fish" crying out to the mirror of Truth "How hard is it to just passover one's post?"

rk: By all appearances as evidenced by his own compulsive actions, it would seem to be damn near impossible. Yet there he is, along with a "Legion" of other conditioned, hypocritical ignoramuses who hide in the shadow of anonymity and cling to each other for the security of "fellowship," singing his "little" heart out to to the choir."

rk: Such is the fate of ignoramuses. They pass through this life, from cradle to their last breath leading to the grave, never understanding the experience of LIFE itself.

rk: The sadness of our times is reflected by those who possess Intelligence but remain mute in the face of such an agressive Legion of Ignoramuses.

rk: Isn't it time you folks found your voice?

d: The reality is that mankind must go BEYOND consciousness for there to be a new order to the world.

rk: Truth is the eternal holistic marraige of existence and consciousness in the timeless moment of NOW. TRUTH IS GOD! Anything less is relegated to the "false gods" of the Intellect. Judeo-Christian First Commandment: "I AM the Lord Thy God, Thou shalt have no other "gods" Before ME. There is only ONE TRUTH, ONE GOD. All else is the LEGION of "false gods" of ILLUSION.

rk: You play with words. Words which are limited in their meaning, and therefore flawed per se.

rk: You, like many are able to grasp the gross vibration of the letter of the word, but miss the telepathic nuance of the Living Spirit of the Word that is capable of being grasped by "few" indeed. Therefore you, like others are incapable of direct perception of the Timeless Truth, and can do nothing but argue over your own partial grasp of that vibration which lies beyond the limited vibration of Intellect. Such a state is the state of "Ignorance."

rk: That transition from the whole to the fragment was, and is "civilized" mankind's *Original Sin", his "Fall from Grace." That was, and is "civilized" man's loss of Supreme Intelligence via his capitulation to the temptation of a limited Intellect promising man that he could be a god in his own right.

rk: In that "aftermoment" of doubt, Hell was the realm of a dualistic opposing (Satanic-ruled) Consciousness created by man himself. He damned himself to live in that hell-bound realm of conditioned illusory "false gods" of his own conditionable, projected illusions and concepts.

rk: It was through this relinquishment of his True Estate of resonance with the eternal (timeless) holistic state of "Being" through capitulation to the seductions of a dualistic (Satanic) aftermoment based, (timebound) indirect perceiving Intellect that has reduced man to a hellish existence that is the limited state of Intellectual "Becoming." Thus man became "Civilized."

rk: It was the step away from the eternal moment of NOW into the aftermoment linear Intellectual reality of past, present, and future. A step which introduced the time-bound concepts of birth and death, beginning and end, ie. the realm of the "living dead" the state of limitation, the state of ignorance.

d: Now in so many words you tell people to take control of their purse strings, to only support corrupt government in accordance with what their corrupt viewpoint dictates.. and Ray this is ASSBACKWARDS.

rk: My words shock people into realizing their own state of Ignorance. Is that not the "first step" to the "Resurrection" of the Spirit of Intelligence? Unfortunately, my "holistic" words are grasped "fragmentedly" and are therefore misunderstood. Such is the nature of Ignorance, is it not?

rk: If civilized man understood my words, Hell on Earth would fall away in an "eternal" blink of an eye, and Heaven on Earth would return man to his previous state of Grace, a TRUTH based consciousness. I am using existing "conditioned" religious language here to communicate a return from a limited Intellectual state of Ignorance to the "Christ" state of holistic intelligence, i.e., TRUTH. But even the "familiarity" of "letter of the words used is no guarantee it will be heard by intellectual ignoramuses , if the openess to the TRUTH contained therein is not operating in that unreceptive consciousness.

rk: Despite its simplicity, the "average" religious conditioned intellect shall filter the word through a linear maze of concepts by an complexity oriented intellect which must justify its own state of Ignorance. That is the nature of BASSACKWARD, is it not?

d: It is ASSBACKWARDS to suppose humanity can do anything but perpetuate the same misery it has always generated regardless of who controls the purse strings.

rk: Such a statement is true as far as it goes -- that is of course only as long as the change brought about remains at the peripheral level of intellectual cogitation. I am addressing FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE. Who amongst you are able to SEE THAT?

d: Mind control is mind control. It doesn't matter who originates the action or who perpetuates it.

rk: "The Blind leading the blind, eh." We are "atone" in the understanding of what you have just communicated. However let it be relegated to the "empty rhetoric" bin, for it serves nothing but continued go-nowhere debate. See what I mean about the misdirecting tricks of the Intellect?

d: An intelligent mind can see that it's formation took place under controlled circumstance.. and this perception is ITSELF the way out of mind control. Writing congressmen and the like is just DUMB.

rk: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. When in Hell, bring such Hell to the Light of Truth, and ignoramuses will be quickened in their understanding of their own ignorance. Has that not been shown on these Internet Newsgroups/forums in the last five years?

d: Can there be a NEW consciousness?

rk: YOU BET!!

d: Is it possible for consciousness to change the world as we now know and perceive it?

rk: YOU BET!!

d: Now this is something worth thinking about, worth discussing, and worth reading.

rk: Do you see you own re-immersion into the realm of intellectual ignorance in such a statement? It is not a matter which deserves more thinking, more discussing, more reading. It is a matter of simply SEEING that the fragmented intellect will never be able to grasp the whole, but will only serve its own limited and divisive interests. Hell, isn't it?

d: Your posts to date are not NEW consciousness and are not worthy of attention.

rk: At least to you. That is quite obvious. But then is not such facesaving defense of one's aftermoment based limited intellect a dead giveaway of an Intellectual bound ignoramus?

rk: My response to Followup Post from dirt;

d:> Now you say that I play with words, and you are right. What else are they good for?

rk: To communicate???

d: > You are either the master of words or they master you.

rk: Ah! the consciousness of an ignoramuse. Duality expresses itself in every nook and cranny of your limited consciousness, does it not? Does your "blindness" not allow you to SEE IT?

d: > And being master over words doesn't mean you can write well, it means words describe and inform but they do not run the show.

rk: Operating in the timeless State of Being that I AM, I neither seek nor strive to "write well"; i.e., according to established standards of dualism-bound ignoramuses. I write only to communicate the multidimensional essence of nondualistic Truth as simply and directly as possible.

rk: I leave the "packaging" standards one learns in a flawed educational system to others.

rk: The main complaint the dull and the unaware voice about my writing is that they are not vague enough to gloss over and allow the reader to easily insert his own judgment upon them. My writing is neither sloganish nor scannable, and so does not pander to ignoramuses with short attention spans.

d: > And it appears your words are leading you about by the nose. There is no feeling in this post of yours.

rk: One should learn the lesson, "Never urinate on the flame of Truth while standing in ignorance, complaining of the darkness."

d: > It is all going nowhere so I suggest it should be cast into the empty rethoric bin... should it not?

rk: Suit yourself.

d: > Ray, you just talk AT people.

rk: How else can one talk to the Dead?

d: And I see that you think you are being a mirror, but a dirty mirror if a mirror at all.

rk: Reread the part about "face-saving" rationalizations.

d: And whose talk is more responsively routine than yours? So maybe you'll leave the peanut gallery someday, and see how to talk WITH someone for a change. These were my comments to 'Ray' followed by a healthy silence.

rk: Leaving after only two interchanges with the Mirror of Truth? As with all hypocrites, you demonstrate that your words say one thing, but your actions quite another.

Just ignore him.

Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 14:58:46 GMT

From: Saul Paul (unknown)

sp: How hard is it to just passover one's post? If they use volume, then this is their weakness.

rk: "Truth is the eternal holistic marraige of existence and consciousness in the timeless moment of NOW. TRUTH IS GOD!"

sp: Meaningless. Ray is making an omelete of unquantifiable words. This sentence has said absolutely nothing.

rk: "Anything less is relegated to the "false gods" of the Intellect."

sp: Anything less than truth is, for matematical reasons, is less than true. But the word 'truth' used in religion? Ray knows he is playing.

sp: Ray has a collection of words, like Greg Laux, that he keeps in a coffee can. He shakes them around and spills them out onto a table. And then follows this Ouiji-style whim like a path. Same as planning your financial future on the Lotto.

sp: And what for? Probably the same reason they made Joe Camel tell the weak minds that they could be as cool as a cartoon. Money.

sp: Any 2 minutes you respond to the Joe Smiths is 2 less minutes you improved the world.

sp: Next time Ray posts, ignore it. Otherwise, this would be a sh*t-flinging contest.

Raymond has changed my life

Re: Just ignore him. (Saul Paul)

Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 15:44:38 GMT

From: a person who's life was changed here (unknown)

He has certainly caused me to re-think everything that I thought was true. Much of what I used to think was important is meaningless... just as Raymonds endless rantings and ravings are meaningless.

I wonder what it would be like to grow old like Raymond and always feel the need to exhalt yourself above everyone else. Life could not get much more pathetic, empty and senseless.

Hell... isn't it Ray?

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

Reply

Sun, 08 Oct 2000 02:05:18 GMT

dirt (darksight@earthlink.net)

Raymond Karczewski wrote:*****

d:>> Now you say that I play with words, and you are right. What else are they good for?

rk: > To communicate???

d: Communication IS a play of words Ray. As I say below, they are for describing and informing.. which is another way of saying 'communicating'. And had you seen the essence of what I wrote I wouldn't be writing this play of words for you at this very moment.

d: > > You are either the master of words or they master you.

rk:> Ah! the consciousness of an ignoramus. Duality expresses itself in every nook and cranny of your limited consciousness, does it not? Does your "blindness" not allow you to SEE IT?

d: Consciousness IS duality Ray.

rk: Consciousness is multidimensional. The linear, flat, horizontal, Satanic (opposer-ruled), dualistic, intellectual realm of consciousness is but the grossest level of consciousness.

d: There is NO consciousness without it, so it is ignorant to state otherwise. NOw here is a question... do I see through consciousness or do I see consciousness?

rk: If you want to entrap another into the "Observer and the Observed" conundrum, I assure you dialogue will not ensue. What you will get in its stead is the mirroring of such ignorance expressing itself, "thinking" how clever one can be.

rk: Die to the mind (end its incessant judgmental chattering). Just observe. Where are you? Where is Judgment? Where is duality?

d: You follow the question?

rk: No, not follow, but observe it in its totality in the eternal moment of Now. Such holistic observation, insight, dissolves illusion and is the very nature of understanding.

d: The deeper you go the more subtle life becomes.

rk: One cannot go deep while navigating on the linear, flat plane of Intellect. You simply indicate your present state of "unawareness." When linear thought stops, multidimensional insight IS.

d: This is why words fall short, they can't make the full journey.

rk: True.

d: But they are not our enemy, they are very useful in many ways and they can even be useful in pointing to a place beyond word.

rk: I have never claimed words to be our enemy. That is your own judgment you are putting forth while attempting to hold me responsible for such claim, is it not?

rk: In effect you do not wish to dialogue, but to engage in debate. You are demonstrating your own unaware. dualistic response to your inability to grasp the spirit of my words. Now that, you will agree, is symptomatic of IGNORANCE, is it not?

d: But you seem to have overlooked this point in your haste to declare me an ignoramus.

rk: I have merely expressed what is observed unfolding in the moment of perception. Since time was not involved, I assure you neither was "haste."

d: Does your direct perception not SEE THIS?

d: > And being master over words doesn't mean you can write well, it means words describe and inform but they do not run the show.

snip...

d: > We do agree that you do not strive to write well, this is apparent to anyone that encounters your writing.

rk: Your poll sampling is drawn from whom? A "Legion" of anonymous hypocrites lacking sufficient integrity to back up and be responsible for their words by affix their true names/identities to their posts. Quite Satanic (opposing) of you/they, isn't it?

d: And it is also apparent that you do not strive to communicate.

rk: My contribution to these communications has always been to accurately express the "What IS" as observed in its unfoldment. When dealing with hypocrites who are neither open nor interested in dialogue, who cloud their input with endless intriguing deceptions all they may expect to receive from my posts is to be "MIRRORED." I have long ago learned the lesson of "Resist not Evil" and do not/will not feed such parasitical relationships by engaging them in debate.

d: And you say your writing does not pander to ignoramuses yet what does it attract... maybe it would be more accurate to say you do not consciously pander to the ignorant, but the fact remains that your posts are chum in the ocean for the feeding ignorant.

rk: "...Chum for the feeding ignorant, your words not mine, eh? Such attraction for the ignorant is the very magnetic essence of Truth in a dualistic arena. That is why the light of Truth always attracts the denizens of the dark. It pulls them from their darkness, attracts them much like a moth that is attracted to a flame, even to its own destruction. It is the mirroring of such ignorance that is the key which ultimately unlocks one's prison cell of a Satanic (opposing) dualistic Intellect and sets one's Spirit free.

d: > And it appears your words are leading you about by the nose. There is no feeling in this post of yours.

rk: Do not mistake your unawareness, your own projected lack of sensitivity for absence of "life" in another's post, for such is the very nature of a rationalizing intellect bemoaning its own limitation. Isn't that the nature of ignorance being reflected in the Mirror of Truth regardless of how slick hypocrites are in obfuscating and confusing others at the "Letter of the Word" level of communication ?

rk: >> One should learn the lesson, "Never urinate on the flame of Truth while standing in ignorance, complaining of the darkness."

d: > > It is all going nowhere so I suggest it should be cast into the empty rethoric bin... should it not?

rk: > Suit yourself.

d: No Ray, it isn't me that is being suited here. I am asking you a question, if my words are an empty rhetoric how are they different from yours?

rk: You can ask questions till the "cows come home" and they will not be answered to your satisfaction until you are ready to see the Truth about your conditioned ignorance. At the moment, you are extremely bound up with this current "contest of dualistic debate" you have introduced as a misdirecting tactic. As such, you are unable to SEE the Self Evident answers to your questions.

d: You think your consciousness flows from a different pond then mine?

rk: Same pond, different depth.

d; You think your words are of greater weight? Tell me your answer, show me your TRUE essence?

rk: You are neither ready nor presently able to handle such illusion destroying Truth.

d: > > Ray, you just talk AT people.

rk: > How else can one talk to the Dead?

d: Where is your heart? The answer is there if you know the way.

rk: How can you possibly assert "The answer is there if you know the way", which demands holistic perception, yet at the same line acknowledge that you DO NOT SEE where another's heart is? Just another example of your use of empty, misdirecting, rhetorical questions, is it not? Why all this game playing, oh anonymous one?

d: >> And I see that you think you are being a mirror, but a dirty mirror if a mirror at all.

rk: > Reread the part about "face-saving" rationalizations.

d: You SEE how you judge yourself through me.

rk: Ah! the old mirror reflecting a MIRROR schtick, eh? I assure you such misdirections are successful only when dealing with unaware IGNORAMUSES.

d:> I have no need for rationalization, what you SEE is what you get.

rk: Exactly! We are at-one as to that issue. Of that you can be assured.

d: > And whose talk is more responsively routine than yours?

rk: What else can a Mirror of Truth reflect but the "What IS" of that which stands before it?

d: > So maybe you'll leave the peanut gallery someday, and see how to talk WITH someone for a change.

rk: I have no difficulty talking "with" anyone who is open and honest in their communications. As stated before, game playing hypocrites can only expect to be mirrored.

d: > These were my comments to 'Ray' followed by a healthy silence.

rk: > Leaving after only two interchanges with the Mirror of Truth? As with all hypocrites, you demonstrate that your words say one thing, but your actions quite another.

d: My words ARE my actions, it is impossible for the duality you suggest to be TRUE to a discerning mind. Hell is it not?

rk: I will leave you to stew with that last obfuscation.

Reply

AFAB BULLY/SKEPTICULTIST/ROYBOT(S) -- Mirror Mirror on the Wall!!

To AFAB BULLY/ROYBOT, Intelligence Community/Media/connected ed wilkinson, recent arrival to Cave Junction, Oregon, former Grants Pass businessman, Arms Dealer, self-proclaimed journalist, member of the Oregon Republican Central Committee, known as nope@nospam.com, aka Mr. Ed, aka Sir Ed, aka Ray Kargoofy, aka (LIghtColonel Meepzorp-Bazza, SAIC), aka Raymond Karscrewloose, aka Agent Sir Ed, aka ----- "UNKNOWN",----- and now a host of additional phony names, some of which are to be found below, ponder this about the essence of Karma -- "you can hide but you can't run." Hell, isn't it?

To the other AFAB BULLY/SKEPTICULTIST/ROYBOT(S) who have also dropped out of sight, shed their original "handles," and are now posting under the generic "UNKNOWN," have you learned yet the lessons that "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link" and "It ain't over till it's over?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Monologue of the Dead

Re: Psychotic Arrogance

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 13:18:11 GMT

From: You need a moritician, not a psychiatris (unknown)

d: > Ray, you just talk AT people. > >rk: How else can one talk to the Dead?

d: Where is your heart? The answer is there if you know the way.

The last thing Ray has is a heart: he's been dead in mind and spirit for decades. When he talks about talking to the dead, he's describing the eternal monologue he's had going in his brain for at least 30 years, if not more.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let me get this straight

Re: Monologue of the Dead (You need a moritician, not a psychiatris)

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 13:29:16 GMT

From: Stop wallowing in your own s**t Ray (unknown)

So you're a liar, a gambler, an abuser of animals and people, an obsessive-compulsive with a Christ complex, a pathetically unaccomplished egomaniac ridiculed by the entire world who SIMPLY WON'T LEARN FROM HIS MISTAKES and regain some semblance of dignity by simply FALLING SILENT, and you're telling the rest of the world *they're dead?* I'm sorry your life has turned out to be such a waste Ray, but you may still have a couple of years left: throw out your damned computer, regain some sense of integrity and insight, and get to a medical practitioner now. By the way, I more than agree: your writing and attitude are simply appalling.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Reward for Anyone who can Shut Ray Up

Re: Don't drag your garbage from other forums here Ray (Keep your s**t to yourself for a change)

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 11:59:35 GMT

From: The Money's Safe Forever (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Amen to that Brother

Re: Don't drag your garbage from other forums here Ray (Keep your s**t to yourself for a change)

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 14:19:18 GMT

From: Grow in Intellect and Wisdom Ray (unknown)

Ray, it's bad enough the diarrhea you've been dumping on this forum for so damned long without spreading your disease and then importing the s**t from other websites. Stop reveling in your infection and spare us the unseemly spectacle of an old man who never grew in either intellect or wisdom. JOSEPHINE COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT CLINICAL SERVICES Crisis Services - Emergency Phone Number 541-474-5365. Crisis Services are provided 24 hours a day to anyone experiencing a Mental Health Emergency.

Josephine County Mental Health Program Robert C. Beckett, Administrator 714 NW A Street Grants Pass, OR 97526 Phone: (541) 474-5365 Fax: (541) 474-5366 Website: http://www.jcmhd.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Like Hell it Won't: You can't Shut Yourself Up Ray!

Re: Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 11:56:54 GMT

From: Compulsive Meglomaniac (unknown)

rk: If you want to entrap another into the "Observer and the Observed" conundrum, I assure you dialogue will not ensue.

Obviously the one thing you cannot do is control yourself Ray: if only such sickening "dialogue" would stop you could start living perhaps. SO DO IT MAN: JUST SHUT UP.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A lot of this stuff is coming here from other forums

Re: Agree, but this forum usually is (a s**tflinging contest)

Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 20:57:06 GMT

From: Ray loves to make a show of himself (unknown)

Ray's giving out the address for Townsquare on scores of other forums and is insisting people come here, obtenstibly to watch him preach to the "BASSACKWARDS ignoramuses," but they're really getting a load of seeing him get his ass kicked locally. It looks like they're not onty obliging by coming, but they're getting in their share of the kicks too. Go figure!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No amount of blather...

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 12:13:57 GMT

From: Try your luck at the casinos again Ray (unknown)

No amount of blather (of which, in this post, you there are tons) will change the TRVTH of what this guy is saying: your posts are NOT worthy of attention, and reflect nothing but your own egomania and delusional psychosis. You have no authority of any kind, especially of a spiritual nature, here or anywhere, so go back to your casinos and try your luck there again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is perfectly appalling Raymond

Re: Conceited, hycritical lout

Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 22:52:52 GMT

From: Your Self-Parody is Painful to Watch (unknown)

rk: > It was through this relinquishment of his True Estate of resonance with the eternal (timeless) holistic state of "Being" through capitulation to the seductions of a dualistic (Satanic) aftermoment based, (timebound) indirect perceiving Intellect that has reduced man to a hellish existence that is the limited state of Intellectual "Becoming." Thus man became "Civilized."

This is damned bad writing Raymond! If you could let go for a moment of your overweaning need to try and impress others with what you take to be your "resonant spiritual insight," maybe you would begin to approach powerful, deeply significant writing. This is so ridiculously puffed up and stilted any grain of meaning contained in it has become its own parody. No truth here, just a sad old man who never learned basic lessons in life either about mature reflection, dignified circumspecton, or forceful, incisive writing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What Truth Ray?

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 22:04:15 GMT

From: Back to the blackjack tables for you Ray (unknown)

You lie out both sides of your mouth. Get on Thorazine and put yourself out of your misery foolish old man. Or did you go from high school to medical school as well? I'm still waiting for that chapter of the long, empty myth you've been telling about yourself for decades.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Given the fact you're nothing but LIES

Re: Are You in This World, but Not "OF IT"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 18:50:55 GMT

From: Nothing but Fraud in you Ray (unknown)

Given the fact **you're nothing but documentable lies Ray,** how exactly do you figure yourself to be the "Mirror of Truth," or for that matter anything even remotely related to truth? From lying about your education, to lying about your work background, to denyling your mental health history, and denying your gambling problems, what have you ever said in the last several years that was true? Nothing.

JOSEPHINE COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT CLINICAL SERVICES Crisis Services - Emergency Phone Number 541-474-5365. Crisis Services are provided 24 hours a day to anyone experiencing a Mental Health Emergency.

Josephine County Mental Health Program Robert C. Beckett, Administrator 714 NW A Street Grants Pass, OR 97526 Phone: (541) 474-5365 Fax: (541) 474-5366 Website: http://www.jcmhd.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah, Ray's run that list basically into the ground

Re: Didn't somebody say it had something to do with Art Bell? (B's Bro - nm)

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:57:27 GMT

From: Anita's slow, cold vengeance (unknown)

alt.fan.artbell is the name of the list, and it's only one of the scores of lists where spams his paranoid s**t everyday. He's basically run it into the ground, and a lot of the garbage that's been showing up on this forum is displaced from that group since he posted the Townsquare address and insisted people come and watch his "character" being assassinated here. I guess he thinks anyone who disagrees with him or immediately recognizes he's insane is an AFAB bully, which means all but about 3 people on the face of the planet are part of the conspiracy. It looks like Ray doesn't actually read anything he posts before he posts it; either that or he really is illiterate and so sick nothing will stop his self-destructive fantasies except locking him up. Anita must be relishing the thought: I'm convinced she hates him for everything he's put her through in life, and this is her slow, cold form of vengeance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's over alright. You lost your gamble again Ray.

Re: AFAB BULLY/SKEPTICULTIST/ROYBOT(S) -- Mirror Mirror (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:50:40 GMT

From: Back to the blackjack tables for you Ray (unknown)

Hmmm. Remind me again Ray: what DID people tell you about your claims of being persecuted over the Internet? What did the FBI, CIA, White House, Ron Wyden, Dave Daniels, etc. say to you, or did you forget over the past few days AGAIN? They told you IT'S OVER ALRIGHT you idiot, and repeating the same stupid, paranoid, derivative s**t over and over and over and over and over and over (etc.) again won't make it any truer. JOSEPHINE COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT CLINICAL SERVICES Crisis Services - Emergency Phone Number 541-474-5365. Crisis Services are provided 24 hours a day to anyone experiencing a Mental Health Emergency.

Josephine County Mental Health Program Robert C. Beckett, Administrator 714 NW A Street Grants Pass, OR 97526 Phone: (541) 474-5365 Fax: (541) 474-5366 Website: http://www.jcmhd.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

- on the wall. Who's the densest of them all?

Re: AFAB BULLY/SKEPTICULTIST/ROYBOT(S) -- Mirror Mirror (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:55:12 GMT

From: EJL63FLH (unknown)

Ray, I think what we have here is a failure to communicate. I think I speak for the group here in saying that we are realising that there really is no getting through to you. Maybe you and Wiliam Shatner could get something together.....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You are pure infection Ray

Re: AFAB BULLY/SKEPTICULTIST/ROYBOT(S) -- Mirror Mirror (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:59:57 GMT

From: The world will be better off without you (unknown)

rk: ***NOTE*** That wouldn't be a DEATH THREAT, would it?

rk; Attention FBI, What's it going to take for you to MOVE ON THIS?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

about his family?

Re: AFAB BULLY/SKEPTICULTIST/ROYBOT(S) -- Mirror Mirror (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 20:05:09 GMT

From: Do you have ANYONE in your life Ray? NO! (unknown)

Ray's uncharacteristic silence in this regard only means one thing: his own family either has nothing to do with him or has already threatened to commit him if he refuses to help himself. Given his grossly exhibitionist behavior and sickening abuse of everyone to prop up his own malaise, it must be the former: congratulations Ray on destroying even your own family in your obscene meglomania. Only Anita seems to be around still, and she's either f**king insane herself or watching him degenerate out of sheer, unmitigated malice.

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

Reply

Isn't it time for humanity to bring fundamental change into its tortured existence?

Understand what is being communicated in this article, and humanity will have a "NEW CONSCIOUSNESS" on this earth.

There will be no need for a "New World Order," for the order of natural Intelligence will emerge effortlessly within the hearts and minds of human beings, regardless of their previous cultural, political and religious conditioning.

This article contains the very secret of Spiritual Liberation. It strips away the power of the few over the many.

The only obstacle standing in the way of Peace on Earth is how you "choose" to view the following article.

After reading the article and seeing the simple Truth for yourself, an action of Intelligence is required to STOP the present momentum of mind control which has kept you "unaware" and controllable by your leaders.

It is this "unawareness" that has allowed the few to rule the many since the dawn of civilization.

It is time for a New Age of Spiritual Liberation.

Consciousness per se is not ignorance, for Life Itself, as perceived by the human species, is a marriage of existence and consciousness.

Ignorance arises when Consciousness is compelled to conform to time-bound Cultural, Political, and Religious conditioned standards found in the dualistic (Satanic-Opposer) realm of Intellect.

A healthy *ego,* that which resonates within a *Christ,* is guided by the Infinite, unbounded Spirit of Divine Intelligence. It is the link which arises in the *out of time* moment of NOW between the ultra-fine vibrations of spirit and the gross vibrations of material-based Intellectualism.

In a balanced *out of time* moment of Consciousness and Existence which some may call NOW, the act of creation arises, manifests, peaks, recedes, then dissolves once again into the Infinite from whence it came, leaving no trace. That is the nature of Eternal Life, of Life Everlasting. It has also been characterized by some as the State of "Being."

An unhealthy ego is a time-bound, aftermoment-based (dead) conceptual vibration arising from memories which a fragmented, trained consciousness mistakenly identifies as "oneself."

The "unhealthy ego is the "ME," the "I." In essence, it is merely a time-bound concept which identifies with the contents of a dead intellect. It is dead because it exists only in the aftermoment which occupies and clutters up the eternal reoccurance of NOW. Such unhealthy egos are therefore caught in time, in the flat, horizontal, linear realm of yesterday, today, and tomorrow. That unhealthy time-bound energy is the very nature of "Becoming."

Intellect is but an inert instrument much like this computer, which at the present time can only operate when directed by an outside "Living Intelligence " which controls/manipulates and directs the momentum of its programmed activities.

Were the performance of a functional computer to be compared to the limited functional intelligence of a conditioned, belief-ridden human being in perceiving its relationship with the source of its intelligence, i.e., the computer programmer, the computer could well regard the outside entity which is putting it, the computer, through its paces, as GOD!

Both Intellects and computers can be likened to "unhealthy egos," as they are both limited and rigidly subject to their programming. Have you not heard the one about "Garbage in -- Garbage out?"

Do not scoff at such simplicity. I have just told you a Truth so obvious, so devastating to your complexity-oriented Intellect that it cannot readily fathom such a shocking revelation.

Watch the responses which arise within your consciousness to this simple Truth. The story they tell you will be the story of your own personal state of consciousness, of manifest Intelligence.

An "unhealthy ego," one which is caught in time, one which is open to outside conditioning, is the corrupted essence found in the dualistic realm of Intellect.

The Intellect, an Instrument which selectively funnels all of its fragmented perceptions through a conditioned, conceptual filter of "like and dislike," is in a constant state of war with itself, for the Intellect is ruled by Satan (the Opposer). Its conflicted, dualistic nature arises from man's "Fall from Grace." As such, the "unhealthy ego" will readily eschew holistic Truth, i.e., GOD, while in its limited, time-bound state of ignorance, it will worship, embrace, and regard the fragmented part (false god) it perceives as being the "Whole."

Thus is the subtle distinction which accounts for the vast schism which eternally exists between the religious and the Spiritual realms.

For example: One has been trained to "think" of a *Christ* as a supreme "Somebody," has he not? Civilized man has been trained to worship such an icon, to strive to emulate (but never "hope" to achieve) the belief-based "unattainable" qualities of that icon in one's lifetime. If that is not a formula for engendering failure and for the manipulation of others, which results in the subsequent redistribution of energy (POWER), nothing is.

Consider the INFINITE: An Essence beyond conceptualization -- without beginning or end -- that which is timeless, unbounded, unfathomable. Has not such an essence, which necessarily lies beyond the capacity of a limited Intellect's grasp, been called throughout the ages -- GOD?

Now consider this: From birth a child is trained through means of stimulus-response, reward and punishment, regardless of where he/she is born geographically or culturally. Through constant repetition by their "culturally" flawed parents who were themselves raised in that same manner by their parents (and their parents by their parents, and so on and so on throughout the generations to the beginning of the family) the child is conditioned to be a "Somebody."

The "Sins of the Fathers" have been visited upon their "Sons."

The Sin, "Original Sin," is that of IGNORANCE. That is the beginning of Hell on Earth for the young, knowledge-seeking entity.

The more the child conforms, the more they are considered "NORMAL." The more normal they are, the more easily they are controlled by their mind controlling leadership, be it the parent, the teacher, the clergy or the government. Such is the ignorant nature of Civilized Society.

Such ignorance is the evidence of Civilized man's "FALL FROM GRACE." The ignorance arises when an holistic consciousness has been transformed through conditioning, which results in a fragmented consciousness. It is then that the transformation of a "healthy ego" into an "unhealthy ego" takes place, transforming a "NOBODY" into a "SOMEBODY."

What is the anguished cry heard in the human ghettos scattered throughout our world? Is it not the cry of the downtrodden, the exploited, the poverty stricken, the deprived lamenting over their plight in life? Are not the shouts and the whispers of the proud and the impotent -- I WANT TO BE SOMEBODY??

Look at it. Don't move away from it. Don't excuse what you see. Neither excuse your reaction to what you see. Don't avoid it. Don't deny it. It is in you. It is in damn near everyone you *KNOW.* It is the "unhealthy ego" of the corrupted "civilized" human being who strives for but never achieves PEACE ON EARTH.

Everybody wants to be a SOMEBODY. Have any of you reading this run into an entity who understands the wisdom of Truly being a NOBODY? If so, pay close attention to that person, for you have likely met a CHRIST.

Have you grasped yet the significance of BASSACKWARD at its subtlest level of consciousness?

Examine quietly the essence of a SOMEBODY. By its very "vibration" can you not SEE limitation inherent in such a conceptually structured entity?

Examine quietly the essence of a NOBODY. Is there a limit to a NOBODY?

Is not the very essence of the INFINITE also the essence of NO-THING and the antithesis of SOME-THING?

Take to heart the words of an itinerant carpenter, a NOBODY of His time, one who walked this earth some 2000 years ago, one who counseled the rich and poor alike when He said that one must "DIE TO BE REBORN OF THE SPIRIT."

What Jesus, the CHRIST, the NOBODY, the carpenter, the itinerant preacher, did in sharing that statement of TRUTH with ALL who had the "eyes to see and the ears to hear" was to give sight to the spiritually blind and to raise the spiritually dead. He gave them the secret to Eternal life. How many who listened to His words grasped their meaning then? How many are able to grasp it NOW?

Such simple Truth was distorted by the Religious and Political SOMEBODIES of His time and by those who have acted in His name thereafter, and the rest is, as they say, HISTORY.

That's enough for now. The "mission impossible" for all conditioned believers is to UNDERSTAND the simplicity of what has just been communicated.

I will close this by revealing to ALL who choose to navigate through life blindly, filtering life's holistic energy through the fragmentation of an "unhealthy ego," the undeniable, inarguable fact that they are but belief-ridden IGNORAMUSES.

Not so, you say? May I suggest that those of you who are outraged at such a simple truth put it to the test for yourselves. All one need do is look at the present state of our world. How do you "THINK" it got that way?

Don't react to the word IGNORAMUS until you look it up in the dictionary. Understand its true meaning. It is not my intention to insult anyone with that word, yet the shocking revelation that everyone who lives in their mind is a conditioned IGNORAMUS will surely be interpreted as insult.

Why settle for the petty perks of selling your soul to a Satanically-ruled Intellect by being a SOMEBODY and in turn relinquish your TRUE ESTATE as a Child of God, a CHRIST, an entity atone with INFINITE INTELLIGENCE -- a vibration of life that only NOBODIES can Truly Understand?

Copyright © 2000 by Raymond Karczewski

Reply

On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 00:56:46 GMT,

dirt (darksight@earthlink.net) wrote:

Raymond Karczewski wrote:

This is being reposted on these newsgroups for several reasons. As of the present moment, the original article has not yet reached my personal computer screen even though anonymous attacks tied to it from the usual detractors have appeared. See Below!

More importantly, it is reposted because it's time for humanity to bring fundamental change into its tortured existence.

Understand what has been communicated in this article and humanity will have a "NEW CONSCIOUSNESS" on this earth.

There will be no need for a "New World Order," for the order of natural Intelligence will emerge effortlessly within the hearts and minds of human beings regardless of their previous cultural, political and religious conditioning.

This article contains the very secret of Spiritual Liberation. It strips away the power of the few over the many.

The only obstacle standing in the way of Peace on Earth is how you view the following article.

After reading the article and seeing the simple Truth contained therein for yourselves, an action of Intelligence is required in order to STOP the present momentum of mind control which has been instrumental in keeping you "unaware" and controllable.

It is this "unawareness" that has allowed the few to rule the many since the dawn of Civilization.

It is now time for a New Age of Spiritual Liberation.

You will find the First and Last Step to such Spiritual Freedom at the bottom of this article.

The rest is up to you.

d: >Ah yes, the ignorance of consciousness. Now ignorance is a form of blindness, a form of SEEING that is partial in scope. For example, I sit here and SEE what is loosely thought of as the world at large..but my SEEING is not whole, it is a mixture of the spontaneity of the senses, associative memory, background thinking, and so forth. And ALL of this is the inherent ignorance of consciousness.

rk: Consciousness per se is not ignorance, for Life Itself, as perceived by the human species, is a marriage of existence and consciousness.

rk: Ignorance arises when Consciousness is made to conform to time-bound Cultural, Political, and Religious Conditioned Standards found in the dualistic (Satanic-Opposer) realm of Intellect.

d: >But this duality that is expressed in every nook and cranny of limited consciousness is NOT me.

rk: The answer to that is both *YES" and *No*!

rk: A healthy *ego,* that of a *Christ,* is guided by the Infinite, unbounded Spirit of Divine Intelligence. It is the link which arises in the"out of time" moment of NOW between the fine vibrations of spirit and gross vibrations of materialism. In a balanced moment of Consciousness and Existence, the act of creation arises, manifests, peaks, recedes, then dissolves once again into the Infinite from whence it came. It leaves no trace. That is the nature of Eternal Life. That is the nature of "Being."

rk: An unhealthy ego is a time-bound, aftermoment-based (dead) conceptual vibration arising from memories which a fragmented, trained consciousness mistakenly identifies as "oneself." It is the "ME," the "I" which identifies with the contents of a dead intellect. It exists only in the aftermoment, and therefore is caught in time, in the linear realm of yesterday, today, and tomorrow. That unhealthy time-bound energy is the very nature of "Becoming."

rk: Intellect is but an inert instrument, much like this computer which at the present time can only operate when directed by an outside "Living Intelligence" controlling/manipulating/directing the momentum of its programmed activities.

rk: Were a computer to act similarly to conditioned human beings and perceive its limited relationship with the source of its Intelligence, the computer would "necessarily" regard the outside entity which is putting it through its paces as GOD!

rk: Both Intellects and computers can be likened to "unhealthy egos," as they are limited and rigidly subject to their programs. Have you not heard the one about "Garbage in -- Garbage out?"

rk: Please do not be embarrassed, nor face-savingly scoff at such simplicity. I have just told you a Truth so obvious, so devastating to your complexity-oriented Intellect that it cannot readily fathom such a shocking revelation. Watch the responses which arise within your consciousness to this simple Truth. The story it will tell you will be the story of your own personal state of consciousness, of your Intelligence.

rk: An "unhealthy ego," one which is caught in time, one which is open to outside conditioning, is the corrupted essence found in the dualistic realm of Intellect. It is an instrument which selectively funnels all perceptions through a conceptual filter of like and dislike and eschews holistic Truth while it worships, embraces, and regards the fragmented part as the whole.

rk: For example: Man has been trained to "think" of a *Christ* as a supreme "Somebody," has he not? Civilized man has been trained to worship such an icon, to strive to emulate (but never "hope" to achieve) the belief-based "unattainable" qualities of that icon in his lifetime. If that is not a formula for engendering failure and for the manipulation of others, resulting in the subsequent redistribution of energy (POWER), nothing is.

rk: Consider the Infinite: An essence beyond conceptualization -- without beginning or end -- that which is timeless, unbounded, unfathomable. Has not such an essence which lies beyond the capacity of a limited Intellect's grasp been called throughout the ages GOD?

rk: Now consider this: From birth a child is trained through means of Stimulus-Response, reward and punishment, regardless of where he/she is born geographically or culturally. Through constant repetition by "Culturally" flawed parents who were themselves raised in that same manner by their parents (and their parents by their parents, and so on and so on throughout the generations to the beginning of the family) the child is conditioned to be a "Somebody." The "Sins of the Fathers" have indeed been visited upon their Sons." The Sin, "Original Sin," is that of IGNORANCE. That is the beginning of Hell on Earth for the young manifested entity, is it not? The more they conform, the more they are "NORMAL." The more normal they are, the more easily they are controlled by their mind controlling leadership. Such is the ignorant nature of Civilized Society.

rk: Such ignorance is the evidence of Civilized man's "FALL FROM GRACE." The ignorance arises when an holistic consciousness has been transformed through conditioning, which results in a fragmented consciousness. It is then that the transformation of a "healthy ego" into an "unhealthy ego" takes place, transforming a "NOBODY" into a "SOMEBODY."

rk: What is the anguished cry heard in the human ghettos scattered throughout our world? Is it not the cry of the downtrodden, the exploited, the poverty stricken, the deprived lamenting over their plight in life? Are not the shouts and the whispers of the proud and the impotent -- I WANT TO BE SOMEBODY??

rk: Look at it. Don't move away from it. Don't excuse what you see. Don't avoid it. Don't deny it. It is in you. It is in damn near everyone you *KNOW.* It is the "unhealthy ego" of the corrupted "civilized" human being who strives for but never achieves PEACE ON EARTH.

rk: Everybody wants to be a SOMEBODY. Have any of you reading this run into an entity who understands the wisdom of Truely being a NOBODY? If so, pay close attention to that person, for you have likely met a CHRIST.

rk: Have you grasped yet the significance of BASSACKWARD at its subtlest level of consciousness?

rk: Examine quietly (if you can) the essence of a SOMEBODY. By its very "vibration" can you not SEE limitation inherent in such a conceptually structured entity?

rk: Examine quietly, again ( if you can), the essence of a NOBODY. Is there a limit to a NOBODY?

rk: Is not the very essence of the INFINITE also the essence of NO-THING and the antithesis of SOME-THING?

rk: Take the words of an itinerant carpenter, a NOBODY of His time, who counseled the rich and poor alike when He said that one must "DIE TO BE REBORN OF THE SPIRIT."

rk: What Jesus, the CHRIST, the NOBODY, the carpenter, the itinerant preacher, did in sharing that statement of TRUTH with ALL who had the "eyes to see and the ears to hear" was to give sight to the spiritually blind and to raise the spiritually dead. He gave them the secret to Eternal life. How many who listened to His words grasped their meaning then? How many are able to grasp it NOW?

rk: Such simple Truth was distorted by the Religious and Political SOMEBODIES of His time and those who have acted in His name thereafter, and the rest is, as they say, HISTORY.

rk: That's enough for now. Your mission impossible is to UNDERSTAND the simplicity of what has just been communicated.

rk: I will close this by revealing to ALL who choose to navigate through life blindly, filtering life's holistic energy through the fragmentation of an "unhealthy ego" based in intellectual conditioning, the undeniable, inarguable fact that they are IGNORAMUSES. Not so, you say? I suggest you look at the present state of our world affairs. How do you "THINK" it got that way?

rk: Don't react to the word IGNORAMUS until you look it up in the dictionary to understand its True meaning. It is not my intention to insult anyone with that word, yet the shocking revelation that everyone who lives in their mind is an IGNORAMUS will surely be interpreted as insult.

rk: Why settle for the petty perks of (selling your soul to a Satanically ruled Intellect) being a SOMEBODY and in turn relinquish your TRUE ESTATE as a Child of God, a CHRIST, an entity atone with INFINITE INTELLIGENCE -- a vibration of life that only NOBODIES can Truely Understand?

d: >> it is consciousness ITSELF. Consciousness knows I AM, but it does not know WHAT I am. Hence it invents the WHAT for untilitarian purposes, but along the way something goes awry.

Raymond Karczewski wrote:*****

rk:> Ah! the consciousness of an ignoramus. Duality expresses itself in every nook and cranny of your limited consciousness, does it not? Does your "blindness" not allow you to SEE IT?

The following libelous attacks arise from the keyboards of ed wilkinson and other assorted anonymous government/media disinformation agents who, through disruption, intimidation, and character assassination control the flow of information on public Usenet Newsgroups/Forums

Desperately fighting your own misery Ray

Re: The Nobody and the Somebody--The Christ and the Ignoramus (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 11:44:38 GMT

From: (unknown)

rk: What is the anguished cry heard in the human ghettos scattered throughout our world? Is it not the cry of the downtrodden, the exploited, the poverty stricken, the deprived lamenting over their plight in life? Are not the shouts and the whispers of the proud and the impotent -- I WANT TO BE SOMEBODY??

rk: Look at it. Don't move away from it. Don't excuse what you see. Don't avoid it. Don't deny it. It is in you.

This confirms what I've thought about you for years now Ray. All this crap you've been desperately posting for years on every open Internet forum you can is the only way you can compensate for your own knowledge YOU DESPERATELY WANT TO BE SOMEBODY and you're ready to viciously attack anyone who rejects your self-aggrandizing abuse and delusions of grandeur. The fact you yourself came up with such a sharp forumlation of your own disorder is the consummate irony, and tells me YOU KNOW PERFECTLY WELL YOU'RE DEPERATELY SICK, but when this knowledge threatens your emotional equilibrium you immedately project the very atributes you describe here onto someone else. Look into this mirror Ray: you've dedicated your life to making yourself feel big and powerful at the expense of others, and IT WILL NEVER WORK: with every syllable of abuse you make yourself smaller, more impotent, and sad, sad, sad. There's no way for you to ever recuperate any respect or authority here Ray: let it go and move on. Maybe if you do something worthwhile instead of spending your life attacking people over the Internet you will someday arrive at some sense of self-respect and mental health.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

You liken yourself to Christ BUT...

Re: Desperately fighting your own misery Ray

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:55:31 GMT

From: You have much to answer for Ray (unknown)

Christ was NOT: 1) a gambler 2) an abuser of people and animals 3) a tax fraud 4) a liar 5) a meglomaniac 6) a paranoid harrasser of government officials

The Holy is immediately known Ray. It takes no explanation, rationalization, or even intellectual process to recognize it. You are not holy, or even a remotely good human being. You are prideful, deceitful, abusive, mean, petty, and relentless in your harrassment. Learn from what you've done with your life and try to do better before you die: you have much to answer for in your existence.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Nobody who thinks he's God

Re: The Nobody and the Somebody--The Christ and the Ignoramus (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 11:45:31 GMT

From: (unknown)

JOSEPHINE COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT CLINICAL SERVICES Crisis Services - Emergency Phone Number 541-474-5365. Crisis Services are provided 24 hours a day to anyone experiencing a Mental Health Emergency.

Josephine County Mental Health Program Robert C. Beckett, Administrator 714 NW A Street Grants Pass, OR 97526 Phone: (541) 474-5365 Fax: (541) 474-5366 Website: http://www.jcmhd.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Delusional Meglomania

Re: The Nobody and the Somebody--The Christ and the Ignoramus (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 11:49:54 GMT

From: aka Raymond Karczewski (unknown)

Raymus! According to the info you posted from The Oregonian board, it only takes 2 people to petition the Director of the Josephine County Mental Health Program, to possibly get you an Involuntary Commitment hearing. You did see that, right?

I have a feeling that the Josephine County Mental Health Program Admin is about to get more than 2 citizen complaints. In fact, the letters could be LEGION!

Hell, isn't it? We'll see you in court after all, buddy!

JOSEPHINE COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT CLINICAL SERVICES Crisis Services - Emergency Phone Number 541-474-5365. Crisis Services are provided 24 hours a day to anyone experiencing a Mental Health Emergency.

Josephine County Mental Health Program Robert C. Beckett, Administrator 714 NW A Street Grants Pass, OR 97526 Phone: (541) 474-5365 Fax: (541) 474-5366 Website: http://www.jcmhd.com

-- A friend who cares, digger

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Of course not Raymond

Re: The Nobody and the Somebody--The Christ and the Ignoramus (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 11:56:41 GMT

From: You're Unholy Arrogance and Abuse Ray (unknown)

rk: For example: Man has been trained to "think" of a *Christ* as a supreme "Somebody," has he not? Civilized man has been trained to worship such an icon, to strive to emulate (but never "hope" to achieve) the belief-based "unattainable" qualities of that icon in his lifetime.

If you had ever informed yourself even minimally about the body of writings attached to Christ you'd know this is about as far from the turh as you can get. **Maybe you should try reading, say, the Bible** before you attack the whole of humanity from the safety of your little computer screen. Give up the absurd fiction you're somehow holy Ray: you're as unholy, perverse, arrogant, and dysfunctional as they come. In your overweaning need for attention and admiration, you know nothing of Christ, or God, or what is holy, only your own sad imperative to make yourelf feel superior to everything else in creation. JOSEPHINE COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT CLINICAL SERVICES Crisis Services - Emergency Phone Number 541-474-5365. Crisis Services are provided 24 hours a day to anyone experiencing a Mental Health Emergency.

Josephine County Mental Health Program Robert C. Beckett, Administrator 714 NW A Street Grants Pass, OR 97526 Phone: (541) 474-5365 Fax: (541) 474-5366 Website: http://www.jcmhd.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Inform yourself Ray

Re: Of course not Raymond (You're Unholy Arrogance and Abuse Ray)

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:57:38 GMT

From: You Have No Knowledge of what is Godly (unknown)

Christ was God made man: every man can strive to attain his state of grace and holiness. You've got everything wrong again in your pride and aggression. You have no knowledge of what is Godly at all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Sins of the fathers"

Re: The Nobody and the Somebody--The Christ and the Ignoramus (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:02:44 GMT

From: Atone for your Sins Raymond While you Ca (unknown)

How interesting that you should insist on the "sins of the fathers" towards their children Ray. What were YOUR sins as a father Ray? You never answered any questions about your kids: what did you do to them to make you write such things as this? I've noticed that everything you write eventually relates back to you personally, albeit by way of oblique attack against other people: Where are your kids Ray? Why are they not helping you get healthy? What sins did you commit against them to leave you such a lonely, angry old man?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Unhealthy Ego

Re: The Nobody and the Somebody--The Christ and the Ignoramus (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:07:11 GMT

From: Atone for your sins: there's still time (unknown)

You are diseased perhaps beyond redemption Ray. Pull yourself out of your meglomaniacal sickness before it's too late: if not, you're doomed to die alone and a figure or ridicule for your foolish conceit and blindness towards your own obvious sins. Atone fro your sins now Ray, while there's still time.

JOSEPHINE COUNTY MENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT CLINICAL SERVICES Crisis Services - Emergency Phone Number 541-474-5365. Crisis Services are provided 24 hours a day to anyone experiencing a Mental Health Emergency.

Josephine County Mental Health Program Robert C. Beckett, Administrator 714 NW A Street Grants Pass, OR 97526 Phone: (541) 474-5365 Fax: (541) 474-5366 Website: http://www.jcmhd.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ATTN: FBI (Ray's delusional rant)

Re: The Nobody and the Somebody--The Christ and the Ignoramus (Raymond Karczewski) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:48:20 GMT

From: Demented Fiction is not Reality Ray (unknown)

rk: Attention FBI: What's It Going to Take For You to Move on This?

Uhm a real case would be a good start. Do you have any idea how hard it is to work on a case which is purely within your delusional paranoia?

Yeah that's right ray, your imagination is not classed as fact or evidence.

Get over it.

Peyote.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Stop being so silly Ray

Re: ATTN: FBI (Ray's delusional rant) (Demented Fiction is not Reality Ray)

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:49:46 GMT

From: Get some help Ray (unknown)

Raymond Karczewski wrote:

AN IMPORTANT CAMPAIGN QUESTION > > IS THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT/MEDIA CONDUCTING ILLEGAL MIND CONTROL EXPERIMENTS ON ITS INTERNET > USING CITIZENS?

No. Now stop being so silly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hubris run Amok

Re: The Nobody and the Somebody--The Christ and the Ignoramus (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:00:20 GMT

From: (unknown)

-large kook babble snip-

Wow ray you must really love the sound of your own voice. Hmm your probably so kooky you even think that your someone important.

To bad the FBI thinks your a kook. Oops let me change that ... the FBI knows your a kook.

Do you have any idea how many people are laughing at you?

Peyote.

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

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