Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:52:03 GMT

Zip wrote:

On Tue, 05 Sep 2000 21:08:40 -0500, tim willy <tim willy@bellsouth.net> wrote:

tw: >Sin begins with a desire. A desire contrary to the supremacy of God.

z: Could you explain this a little more? Are you saying that all desires are sinful? Are you saying that only desires that are "contrary to the supremacy of God" are sinful? Or is it more complicated?

z: Thanks.

rk: In answer to your question, "Or is it more complicated?? The answer is NO -- it is just the opposite of the direction you have, by your own words, *chosen* to pursue -- IT IS SIMPLER!

rk: "Original sin" is man's "Fall from Grace."

rk: "Fall from Grace" is merely a phrase which characterizes man's departure from his previous *atoneness,* his uncontradicted resonance with the holistic (nondualistic) manifest essence of the living Supreme Intelligence some throughout history have labeled God.

rk: "Original Sin" is the step away from Truth, from Life, from the Holistic Infinite Unknown which manifests in the timeless moment of NOW.

rk: "Original Sin" is civilized man's "Fall" into the aftermoment-based Hellish realm of dualistic Intellectualism where "false gods" of thought -- mere limited reflections of the immense, holistic "What IS" -- are worshipped, while direct perception of the holistic Infinite is eschewed.

rk: "Original Sin" is the step through the "looking glass" where everything is perceived "Bassackward."

rk: "Original Sin" is the step into the intellectual realm where masses of "politically/religiously correct-thinking" ignoramuses can easily be manipulated and persuaded by their mind controlling leaders to sacrifice themselves for any intellectually reinforced concept their leaders have conditioned into them. Such codependent, dulled intellects must be willing to *FIGHT FOR PEACE.* In other words, such emotionally unstable, fragmented, fear-based, intellectually driven human beings must be manipulated and pursuaded to kill or be killed for that or some other equally intelligence-destroying, idiotic slogan.

rk: "Original Sin" is the source of civilized man's IGNORANCE. It is responsible for the divisions, the schisms, and the neverending conflict and violence created by fragmented, conditioned minds.

rk: "Original Sin" is the cornerstone upon which the intellectually-structured "Hell on earth" has been constructed by power-seeking men who have sought to exploit other men.

rk: "Original Sin" is the tainted dualistic essence of all who have relinquished their Spiritual "True Estate" as Christs (Children of God), who have been conditioned to "choice" after being spoon-fed the "fruit" of the Tree of the Knowledge of dualistic "good and evil" by their equally ignorant predecessors (parents) who unknowingly passed on to their off-spring, their own generationally inherited state of "conditioned ignorance."

rk: Has it not been said "The Sins of the Fathers shall be visited upon their sons." Many have mouthed the statement? How many who have spoken it, have understood its essence?

Reply

NOTE: I am extending this series for as long (ad infinitum if necessary) as it takes for a *politically/religiously correct-thinking" populace to WAKE UP from their "CONDITIONED SLUMBER."

What is being exposed in these posts is the very nature of SATANIC power of the few over the minds of many via control of the Intellect. It is the very essence of Mind Control. It can implant doubt in another's mind and then exploit that *doubting* Individual through confusion. It is this simple switch within consciousness, which can be remotely thrown by an *outside authority,* as perceived by a confused, limited intellect, that is the SATANIC power which has ruled the civilized world of man since the beginning of time.

Do not recoil in fear at such a statement. For in the essence that is the Infinite which exists beyond words and concepts, there is NOTHING to fear.

It is the step down, the Fall from Grace, the devolution into Intellectual dualism which creates schisms which support the illusion that the only thing to fear is fear itself.

POWER is such an illusion. It comes into being only through fear generating schisms born of intellectual limitation. It exists nowhere but in the state of IGNORANCE. It is observable by the "spiritually sighted" as the predominant momentum of one's conditioned consciousness. In other words, POWER exists only in the intellectual belief system one has been conditioned to adopt through his/her cultural, political, and religious conditioning.

The simple fact IS that the whole of POWER lies in the ability of a SATANICALLY ruled intellect to create doubt in the minds of those who are quick to capitulate to the pressure-stimulus of fear-based dualism.

Illusion is a fiction created by one's own projected concepts. They may be real to the ignorant perceiver, but they are NEVER True. That is the difference between Reality and Truth. This *hidden in plain sight* distinction eludes the average man who has been conditioned to "believe" in his own limitations.

rk: In man's Fall from Grace, one who wishes to be a "god" in his own right may create his own *reality*. But what is the reality created? Is it liberating or binding? Does it engender awareness and freedom, or does it engender unawareness and fear?

The state of awareness is holistic, without contradiction. The state of limited intellectual conceptualism is *unawareness--ignorance* caught in the dualistic images of its own hypocrisy.

Civilized reality is based and structured in man's thought process, in conceptualism. It is thus an appearance, a pseudo-reflection mistakenly held as that unknown, unnameable, unspeakable essence which manifests moment by moment -- Life itself.

Being an illusion, it can be made to appear as the INFINITE ITSELF. Therefore it counts on the conditioned, fear-laden intellect of its "host" which has been trained from an early age to doubt itself. Thus emerges the state of "codependence," which brings with it the imbalance manifest in this world via the *redistribution of power*: i.e., life energy.

Note, if you will, the immediate responses to the series of the first three articles of this thread. They do tell their story, don't they?

Are they whole (holistic in nature)? Have the slogan-spouting, cloaked in anonymity, shadow-dwelling writers identified themselves and taken responsibility for their continued libel? Surely anything that is not whole and complete cannot be True. Do you at least see that?

As long as the readers of these posts cannot see the BIG PICTURE, they are not seeing HOLISTICALLY and therefore cannot grasp the Truth. In such limited ignorance, these readers are but "chaff" within the wheat fields of humanity. They already live in fear of what happens at the time of "harvest," do they not?

rk: Hence they can be made to doubt themselves by mind controllers who, like puppeteers, can pull their strings. Look at your own life. Are you a sovereign human being, or merely a marionette that dances at the mere pull of a thread?

What is being demonstrated on these newsgroups is the energy of integrity, of wholeness as it meets with and mirrors the fragmented energy of power that rules the civilized world of man.

It is palpable. It can be felt even though it is not understood. It raises the HELL that resides in minds of hypocrites.

rk: Forgive my repetition of the original preamble to this series of posts, but it is important for you to see that which lies beyond the letter of the word. It does bear repeating.

Due to the length this article would be were I to post it in its entirety, I have broken it down into a series of three separate posts.*

It is being posted to give readers an opportunity to grasp the *BIG PICTURE* of the Government/Media sponsored/supported disinformation/mind control/brainwashing campaign being conducted on these Internet Newsgroups/Forums.

Following are just a sampling of the responses from just ONE forum these disinformation agents have chosen as a base for attack. Similar ad hominem attacks are found in response to just about every post I have ever written to these newsgroups/forums.

These responses, if you will note, cover only the last 18 days, spanning the time between Aug. 28th--Sept 15th, 2000.

I leave it to the reader to determine whether such numbers in such a short time is a casual undertaking or not?

Note, if you will, that none of the anonymous attackers address the actual content of my post, the message itself; and so they are left only to engage in ad hominem attacks upon the messenger. WHY?

In addition, note also, if you will, the unbridled use of defamation and libel in a mad rush to utilize the time tested, defamatory "Village Idiot" disinformation technique.

These few samples do not cover the death threats made to me through the years, nor do they reveal the insidious attempts to incrementally implant in the readers mind that I have made death threats toward them and their families.

The casual reader new to all this viciousness and insanity may be astounded to know that this type of smear campaign has been going on almost daily for the last 5 years. Anybody see a red flag yet?

These same anonymous individuals have forged posts in my name, have erected numerous web sites, downloaded copyrighted material from my web site, changed the content of that material for the purpose of ridicule, stalked me wherever I have gone on the Internet -- attacking, not my articles, but me. It has even reached the point where they have written phony book reviews on the Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble book sites regarding my work. All but a few such phony book reviews have been removed by Amazon.com and Barnes & Noble.

Beyond the Internet, this same group of individuals has gone as far as to make a false telephone report to the Josephine County, Oregon Sheriff's office in an attempt to establish a public record tarring me with the libel that I am unstable and a threat to myself and others. All this to corroborate their many similar libelous statements on the Internet in order to set me up for future harm. See: http://x75.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=660747604

I've asked Sheriff Dave Daniel of Josephine County, Oregon to have his office investigate the matter, but to NO AVAIL. From Sheriff Daniels I have received the same kind of law enforcement *KISS OFF* that I have received from my elected Federal officials Oregon Senators Ron Wyden and Gordon Smith and from the FBI. I reached the end of the line when I petitioned the White House for help in this matter. All I have received in return is a STONE WALL of SILENCE from ALL OF MY ELECTED OFFICIALS regarding my official complaint filed with the Medford, Oregon office of the FBI on November 2nd, 1997.

This is not only my government in operation, folks, it's yours too. I won't even ask you to ponder why our government would STONE WALL an investigation into Government/Media sponsored/supported Mind Control/Disinformation campaigns illegally launched upon its own citizens. There is nothing to ponder, is there?

Folks, this is how your minds and the minds of your children are being controlled by the government/media mind control/disinformation hired provocateurs who insert themselves into these newsgroups and destroy any possibility of reasonable discourse from continuing.

You are being spoon-fed the information government and media wants you to have. They set the momentum and employ (anonymous) disinformation agents to keep you in the state of consciousness they want you to be -- CONFUSED, DIVIDED and ANGRY.

Yes, folks, you are like putty in the hands of such mind controllers. Yet you foolishly harbor the idea that you have control over your life. How long would you stand up to a thus far 5-year-long campaign of libel and defamation as reflected in the responses of these government/media disinformation provocateurs over the past 18 days?

Mind Control is subtle and incremental. This is why I have put the vitriolic and defaming responses into a series of three articles rather than one ponderously large file.

Read the articles quietly. Set aside your judgment. Let the responses themselves tell you their story. That way you may see for yourself the momentum and dark-spirited agenda behind it all. Seeing the simple mechanics of mind control in actual, practical operation in that manner will allow you to penetrate the letter-of-the-world level of assault and not view it emotionally with fear. If you can do it here, you can do it anywhere. That simple act of paying attention will change your consciousness and your world.

rk: While you're at it, you might want to ask yourselves whether the activity of the last 18 days by these newsgroup/forum mind controllers would even be possible if these government/media disinformation henchmen were required to affix their True Identiy to their comments and stand responsible for them.

The answer is rather obvious, is it not?

Once you see the trauma-induced mindsets inflicted through your "suggestibility" to these tactics, RED FLAGS ought to begin to appear. You will begin to awaken to your true state of consciousness, a state of awareness you lost long ago. However, the awakening will not be without a few jolts along the way to your "politically/religiously correct-thinking," conditioned ego.

Note the "kill the messenger/village idiot" tactics used by these anonymous disinformation agents. They seek to control and direct all dialogue on these groups and forums through intimidation and threat.

By and large, they succeed because the average person who has been conditioned to doubt himself and cave in to such threats and intimidation can only retreat from such confrontation.

I must caution the reader to not view the sample responses below as something which merely happened over the last 18 days. This has been going on for 5 YEARS!!!

It's time to WAKE UP, AMERICA!!

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

The following libelous attacks arise from the keyboards of assorted anonymous government/media disinformation agents who through disruption, intimidation, and character assassination control the flow of information on public Usenet Newsgroups/Forums

Does Oregon have an involuntary commitment law?

Sun, 17 Sep 2000 16:10:12 GMT

From: digger

d: Does anyone here know if Oregon has an involuntary commitment law? I'm wondering if perhaps Anita and `Raymus K. should both be given some help, even though they don't want it now. I suspect that they are a bona fide danger to themselves, as well as to public safety.

d: In Ray's case, simple extradition to Shasta County would get him some temporary confinement, and maybe some help. But that wouldn't cover Anita, and without some treatment for her they'll just keep re-infecting each other.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The point here being...

Re: Government Disinformation Agents on the Internet (Anita Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 11:33:06 GMT

From: Shame on you especially Anita (unknown)

You have told so many lies over the years no one believes you any more. Everything about you speaks fraud and self-aggrandizement. If this is really you Anita, why do you care so little about your husband that you refuse to get him medical attention? It's insidious you know, letting him get sicker and sicker, allowing him to make a bigger and bigger public spectacle of his disease. You should be ashamed of yourself allowing this to go for so long without helping him regain his well-being.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We thank God each night that you and Ray

Re: Re: Government Disinformation Agents on the Internet (Anita Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 11:53:15 GMT

From: did not have children. (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think they did

Re: We thank God each night that you and Ray (did not have children. )

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:02:30 GMT

From: What did you do to them I wonder? (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This goes against what you've already said

Re: Re: Government Disinformation Agents on the Internet (Anita Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:00:17 GMT

From: (unknown)

Apparently you have forgotten that you yourself have already contradicted what you say here. First of all, there are plenty of police jobs that can be done even with a "bad back" so he woldn't have been retired simply on that pretext. By the way, Ray's "bad back" is not what has been noticed on these Internet forums.

More importantly, have you forgotten that in your compulsion to air every aspect of your dementia to the entire world via the Internet, you yourself said Ray had accused other cops of corruption and conspiracy (what a surprise!), had harrassed the city goivernment over the "KISS OFF STONEWALLING," and had haunted city council meetings from which you had to be forcibly removed? Why do you send this stuff out and then try and deny it later? What are we to make of you Anita? I wonder if you even exist: anyone who would say Ray is the "most balanced person I know" is either entirely cut off from all the rest of humanity, foaming at the mouth mad, or non-existant.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not an intimation

Re: Government Disinformation Agents on the Internet (Anita Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 13:57:47 GMT

From: Get Ray to a hospital, and yourself too (unknown)

ak: At *no time* in Ray's life has any medical or police professional ever intimated to him or to me that he could be mentally unstable.

Nonsense. Yoiu've been told this for years. Let's make this official, at least for this forum: Ray's way beyond "mentally unstable" and you know this perfectly well. Or maybe you don't: you could be even sicker than he is. He desperately needs help: take it from a psychiatric professional.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You'd be crazy too, if...

Re: Not an intimation (Get Ray to a hospital, and yourself too)

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 15:46:38 GMT

From: Guess who Ray's #1 problem is? (unknown)

...you had to live with that nagging shrew of a woman. I think Anita caused Ray's insanity. There must be a law somewhere about doing what she's done to him, but she could plead insanity as well as he could.

She must have been b!tching him out for the last 29 years to get a job, make some money. And all he can do is write books that nobody wants to read, make tapes that nobody can stand to hear.

I have decided to file a complaint about Anita with Medford, Oregon office of the FBI. Anita, your days of freedom are numbered. This will all come out in court, will it not.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

O Anita...

Re: Government Disinformation Agents on the Internet (Anita Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 15:53:14 GMT

From: Irony incarnate (unknown)

ak: How do you live with yourselves?

Anita Karczewski

Ask yourself the same question. Get help now, for both you and your husband. You've been running amok long enough.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What's a "phony" book review Ray?

Re: Government Disinformation Agents on the Internet (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 14:44:30 GMT

From: Get over yourself you egomaniac (unknown)

One identifying your self-serving egomania for what it is? One denouncing bestiality for what it is? What's "phony" about bad reviews of bad thinking and bad mental illness? It's simple Ray: your "work" is just pathetic on either an intellectual or spiritual level. Get over yourself.

Reply

Following is a letter sent to Sheriff Dave Daniel of Josephine County Oregon on this date. It speaks for itself.

To Sheriff Dave Daniel

Josephine County Oregon

Sheriff Daniel,

Below are the last two communications had between us.

As you recall, on August 21, 2000. I asked you to assign an investigator to look into the issue behind the "False Report" complaint which brought your Deputies to my home on August 17th, 2000. I told you that the issue went much deeper than the anonymous call, and required a deeper, more thorough investigation by your agency.

Subsequent to that communication, I noticed that someone from your office had accessed my Web site, so it appears that you have in your possession more than just a little background information on this deeper issue.

This issue of Internet mind control/disinformation goes to the very heart of the Freedoms guaranteed us by our Constitution. It reveals the actions of an errant Federal Government and/or privately owned Media charged with the dissemination of information to a vast populace actually supporting/sponsoring/conducting a subrosa campaign of mind control and disinformation against its own citizens on the Internet -- clearly a criminal matter of the highest degree.

I bring your attention to an article posted on the public Usenet newsgroups/forums and on my Web site on this date. You may access it at http://www.arkenterprises.com/dialchs4.htm#Mental

Read the actual communications at the bottom of each of the articles listed as Part I through Part V.

See for yourself the vicious campaign now underway.

I am not petitioning you to act solely on my behalf but for the countless others who may also be focused upon by these criminals in the present and future.

Such viciousness cannot be allowed to continue. If these government/media sponsored/supported disinformation agents can focus their "conspiratorial campaign to libel" upon me and continue it unrelentingly on an almost daily basis with no let up for the last 5 years, they can target anyone for character/actual assassination.

A cursory computer search into archived posts will show a definite pattern being laid by these individuals which suggest plans for such a "set up" are being incrementally laid. This defamation issue is but one of a lengthy list of offenses committed by these individuals as a full in-depth investigation will reveal.

If this is not serious enough for either your office or the FBI to look into, then tell me WHAT IS?

Secondy, if you or the FBI can't respond to the petition of a citizen you/they are sworn to protect and serve, then ask yourself what purpose does such a department truely serve?

You might want to consider that when you look at the public's repeated refusals to grant more monies to your department via everescalating tax levies. Such an election is coming up.

What are you going to say to the people of Josephine County between now and then? A responsible Sheriff would certainly know what to say and do, wouldn't he -- "ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS"!!

As you can tell by my resolve, this issue is not about to go away.

All public officials from the Federal level down to the local level will be held accountable for their Malfeasance in this issue which strikes at the very heart of our Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms.

Since I have been abandoned by my government, this issue is being placed in the hands of the American People, while the rest of the onlooking World watches via the Internet. Your agency is under scrutiny. Your actions will determine world opinion as to the kind of justice American Citizens receive at the hands of their elected and appointed Judicial and Law Enforcement Officials.

Sheriff Daniel, I expect you to honor your "oath of office."

By the way, Sheriff Daniel, this communication is also being posted on the world wide net.

Re: Internet Disinformation Agents invade Josephine County

From: "DAVE DANIEL" (Sheriff Josephine County Oregon)

Mr Karczewski,

I can assure you that our Deputies have no other motive for contacting your residence than to look into a complaint received by our office.

These type of complaints have to be looked in to due to the nature. I hope the Deputies acted appropriately and caused you minimal inconvenience.

Thanks,

Dave

rk: Sheriff, my purpose in writing you was not to complain about your deputies. They comported themselves well. I have no problem with them or you except for the "kissoff treatment" displayed then and now.

rk: This is a serious matter which goes to the very viability of our present form of government. Please do not make a mistake of "sloughing it off" as a minor, routine call.

rk: I see that you already have assigned someone to look into the matter as your office has accessed my website as I suggested this morning.

rk: Clearly the issue cannot be simply reduced to the comportment of your deputies in responding to a routine call.

rk: This investigation, if continued by your office will take our country to uncover and observe the very powers which rule this country.

rk: Sheriff Daniel, I will not accept such a casual reply from the head of a Law Enforcement agency when a major investigation into the actual workings of a "government" within the government is called for.

rk: May I suggest you have your investigators plod through the DejaNews Archives under my name for the last four and a half years. There will the BIG PICTURE be seen.

rk A setup is underway. Surely it is your responsibility to "serve and protect," is it not?

rk: Sheriff Daniel, you just stepped into history. How will it regard you and your agency?

>>> Raymond Karczewski 08/21/00 08:01AM >>>

Sheriff Dave Daniel

Josephine County Sheriff's Office

DDANIEL@co.josephine.or.us

Sheriff Daniel,

On Thursday, Aug. 17, 2000, at approximately 5:30 PM two of your JoCo sheriff deputies, Ofc. Valdez, and another unknown officer came to our home on the outskirts of Cave Junction, Oregon. Both were originally met by my wife Anita in the driveway of our home. They asked her if "Jeffrey lived here". Anita indicated no such person resided here.

The officers indicated their 911 police dispatcher received a call arising from an internet discussion group from a female complainant that information was received that a "Jeffrey" was at this address and was a danger to himself as he had threatened to harm himself, and that he had already "cut" himself. They said they were there to make a welfare check.

I asked the officers who the complainant was. It prompted Ofc. Valdez to confirm the name of the complainant with the dispatcher. The name of "Chris" came back.

It caused red flags to arise as to the coincidence of the two names involved. You see, "Jeffrey" is the name of my two-and-a-half-year-old grandson, while the complainant's name"Chris"(sp), draws "insider" attention to the AFAB BULLIES/SKEPTICULTISTS/ROYBOTS who sometimes use the Internet handles "Kristine " and/or "Chris.".aka lraven.

The name, of course, could well have been used by anyone posing as either of the two, but the familiarity of the complainant with the name of my grandson, along with the increased recent campaign to smear my reputation on the Internet by insinuating I am an unstable person who poses a threat of danger to myself and others, is beyond coincidence.

I advised Valdez that it was a phony complaint, adding that it was part of an ongoing harrassment and libel campaign tied in with the Nov. 2nd, 1997 complaint I filed with the Medford office of the FBI. An investigation, by the way, which has been STONEWALLED, its results kept from the American People, despite contacts made with Oregon Senator Ron Wyden and a number of others at the Federal level of Government.

Though I did not go into any great detail in the matter, Ofc. Valdez did not seem much interested in the information, wrote nothing down for the record, and the two began to leave. It appeared the incident was destined to be a cursory "kissed off," unfounded investigation.

On the way back to the squad cars, I asked Valdez to put a flag on the report, as I expected this was not the end of such innuendo smear-based complaints since the local paper routinely publishes cursory info in their weekly "Tales from the Police Blotter."

My writings on the Internet are quite controversial. As such, they have drawn a great deal of "flack" from those who have relentlessly campaigned to "shut me down," censor, silence me and/or discredit me in the eyes of the public.

I suggest Sheriff Daniel that this is not an issue of an ordinary welfare check, but is part of a campaign which threatens our very right to free speech on or off the Internet. I realize that when you to come into this issue "cold," this may all seem to be too much to swallow. May I suggest you check out my web site at http://www.arkenterprises.com There you will find some background on the issue at hand.

Sheriff Daniel, it is my request that you assign an investigator to contact Agent Gray of the Medford office of the FBI, and that they work together on this issue and bring this matter to closure. In the instant case of your officers' official involvement via anonymous telephone complaints which not only put your officers at risk but citizens alike through such deliberate disinformation, one observes a continuation of a 4 1/2- year-long Internet conspiratorial setup. These anonymous individuals have stepped over the line with this criminal filing of a false report and have now placed this issue into your hands for a criminal investigation.

Sheriff Daniel, I am also posting a copy of this email on the Internet's public newsgroups and forums. I hope such public documentation will not be regarded by you as an obstacle in conducting your investigation nor label me in your mind as hostile toward law enforcement, but in the last four-and-a-half-plus years, I have found no cooperation regarding this issue of National Importance coming from any members of my government at any level, whether it be State, County or at the Federal level. I merely wish to hold ALL INDIVIDUALS ACCOUNTABLE for their actions in this matter.

I hope you understand.

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

Is it not the fact that none of the above are able to function as they do without the necessary cover of secrecy?

Do not hypocrites, manipulators, and exploiters scramble for the shadows when faced with the simple Light of Truth, a Light which dispells all darkness, all shadows?

A new day is dawning for civilized man in this, the age of the computer. That is, of course, unless man, in his long-awaited awakening from his conditioned sleep of ignorance, once again falls prey to the elitist-employed computer experts who are able to control the technical means for such wide-spread communications.

Aided by computers which may disseminate the TRUTH worldwide with a simple keystroke, all men are indeed equals.

The Internet, at the present time, is the last bastion of Freedom. All other means of public dissemination of Information are privately owned and controlled by the few who control the many.

It takes no great insight to see the simple fact that those who make the laws and control the money, rule the world; i.e., "those who (possess the gold and) make the rules, win the game."

How do we stop the present momentum toward a "New World Order" which only serves to consolidate the power into the hands of those who control us now?

Simple -- publish openly all communications held with government officials and bureaucrats. Strip away their present advantage of operating in secrecy. You'll find the mask of Master will fall away, revealing the original servant, shorn of his pretense. Do that, and your relationship with government and the world will change instantly.

The days of Machiavellian Politics would be over in the "blink of an eye," for the power of intrigue would dry up and disintegrate in the "Winds of Change."

Many will note my three-year-long public demonstration on these Internet newsgroups/forums of this new way of one man relating to his government (my November 2nd, 1997 official complaint lodged with the Medford, Oregon office of the FBI regarding Government/Media sponsored/supported mind control/disinformation campaign illegally being conducted upon American Internet using citizens) and see for themselves, unequivocally, its feasability for mass use.

Many will also see the Hell that it has raised in its wake. That is as it should be, for when change occurs within the inert, conditioned intellect, ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE!

None, however, can deny that a nobody, a simple man based in Truth, a Christ (without amnesia) can stand equal to all, and the "gates of Hell cannot prevail" against him.

Visit my bulletin board at: http://www.arkenterprises.com/dialchst.htm

There you will find all that is necessary to reclaim your personal sovereignty.

Wake Up, America!

It *is not* time for a New World Order. IT IS time for a New World Consciousness.

Re: Quite a story

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:01:37 GMT

From: AFAB Bullyette <unknown> wrote:

Raymond Karczewxki <arkent@arkenterprises.com> wrote:

AFABB: Roybots

AFABB: Roy Masters had a call-in radio show in the Oregon area and Ray used to make a fool of himself by bugging the show constantly to have his say. He got so bad that Roy finally had him rejected as a caller. Roy Masters also eschews the hypnotic/mind control theme. Look on the web ,if you like, for his web page. Ray calls anyone who even agrees on one point with Roy Masters a "Roybot". Which is odd, because Ray writes more in the style of Roy Masters than anyone I've seen responding to Ray.

AFABB: All of Roy Masters' fans have left his fan newsgroup and gone to email lists and now Ray is the only one there posting his screed.

rk: Is there no end to the these deceptive spins by government/media supported anonymous disinformation agents?

rk: I did not coin the phrase "ROYBOT." It originated from roy masters himself.

rk: The fact is that I NEVER CALLED A ROY MASTERS SHOW and spoke to him directly.

rk: I called one time when masters was a "guest" on a talk show hosted by "bob just," an employee of Southern Oregon radio station KOPE (roy masters' family owned the radio station at the time). Members of the masters' family are still part of the network organization headquartered in the same building which was responsible for bringing you the "Art Bell Show" and the current "Coast to Coast" show.

rk: How many radio talk show listeners and readers of these newsgroups/forums have paid close attention to the number of merry-go-round, rotating, limited roster of guests which made up the regulars on the old Art Bell show and now the Coast to Coast how hosted by mike siegel, openly speak of their past/present Intelligence community background/ties? Red Flags, anyone??

rk: At any rate, as to the single time I called a show wherein roy masters was a guest, when my call was finally answered after being put on hold for approximately 15-20 minutes, I was told by the host, "bob just," to call back at another time -- that there was not sufficient time for me to make my point (a favorite control technique repeatedly used by masters and other talk show hosts at the station). The question which must be asked is why the call was taken "on air" in the first place if there was no time to take it?

rk: The talk show host, "bob just," came unglued on the air and cut me off when I exposed the repeated use of the cut-off ploy and brought it into public focus. He continued with his tirade long after he had cut me off. Miraculously, he found sufficient time for that. More Red Flags, anyone??

rk: Actually, the talk show host who was responsible for my being barred from calling in to the Southern Oregon radio station KOPE, was the son of roy masters and member of the board of directors of KOPE, david masters. He regularly came unglued with comments and questions I put to him on the air. Has anyone been paying attention to the signature "royson" which has appeared on some of these recent "anonymous" posts? Coincidence??

rk: The KOPE talk show host "bob white," whose true identity is Neale Donald Walsch, author of "Conversations with God," was the only talk show host at the time who defied station board of director policy banning me from speaking on the talk shows. He took my calls.

rk: He openly declared on one show that no one was going to dictate policy as to who he should or should not allow to call HIS show.

rk: Walsch cohosted "talk shows" with david masters and can well testify to david masters' propensity for coming unglued with my comments.

rk: Anyone interested in confirming this directly, contact Neale Donald Walsch and get his side of what really went on back in those days.

rk: I invite any/all journalists who still possess a semblance of journalistic integrity and have the courage to break this scandalous, STONE WALLED government/media mind control/disinformation national issue publicly to jump right in. Isn't that what Investigative Journalism is all about?? OR IS IT?

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

Radio Talk Show Bob Just, Roy Masters and Raymond Karczewski

To shed light on the brief and ONLY on-air communication between Ray Karczewski and Roy Masters, a guest on "the Bob Just Show", Southern Oregon's Talk Show radio station KOPE. The following is a transcript of that muddled, conflicted, never-got-off-the ground, 56-second event. Pay attention to talk show host "Bob Just" as he runs interference for his boss, Roy Masters, throughout the interview.

Inasmuch as the station's policy in the past has been to encouraged listeners to privately tape their talk shows and have advertised for sale radios/recorders designed for that very purpose, in doing so they waive their limited copyright protection. Since I was an active participant to the call itself, and I am willing to share it with the readers of these newsgroups/forums, reprinting this transcription of that call is not a violation of my copyrights as to my participation in the conversation. With that out of the way, here is the conversation:

bob just: "Ah! We got Ray from Cave Junction. Ray, sorry for the wait. Do you have a quick comment or a question? Go ahead."

ray: "Uh! I have a few comments."

bob just:: "Uh, sorry, because there's limited time. Just hit, hit the most important ones for us."

ray: "Ah! boy, I've been holding on for......".("bob just" talks over ray.).

bob just: "I know, I know, I know. Sorry. Well, know what, you can call, I mean, they're gonna be on the air, Roy and Jessie (Peterson) are gonna be on the air the rest of the week."

ray: "roy, I want, let me make my remarks now, please. roy, may I have your permission to speak freely?".

roy masters : (background voice muffled as bob just is simultaneously talking over him) "Well, I don't know why you shouldn't."

bob just: "Well, uh, Ray, look." (Starts to say listen but only gets out) "List...You don't have to be formal here. Ah, eh, a few minutes to go. Make your point. They're gonna be on the air at, all night, tomorrow night, my show, through the weekend and every mon, every mon morning."

ray: "This is the mind control technique that you folk practice all the time by putting something off..." (becomes unintelligible because of being talked over by bob just.)

bob just: "Ah, ok ray, get lost. Call another night, ok? I don't need to deal with this now.---Ed from Jacksonville, you're on KOPE."

ed: "Yes, hello. I'm..." ("bob just" talks over ed and says "I mean, what a bunch of stuff, you know? You know, final message, ray, if you're listening, call on the roy masters and jessie peterson show. I don't need to deal with that here.) ----"Go ahead, Ed."

End of transcription

Note that with the extreme pressure placed on me due to "bob just's" time shortage ploy which prevented me from getting a word in edgewise, he still had enough time to take on another caller.

Curious, is it not?

This is but one example of how my calls were received back in those days.

Other talk show callers have been treated similarly through such mind control techniques. The average talk show caller is unaware of this simple mind control technique which traumatizes the caller and creates the "spell" of control..

Fair? Just? Free Speech? Your call!!

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 06:36:26 +0100,

Moley <Moley@Spurious.Junk.net> wrote:

snip..snip...snip

m: >This to me, seems to provide a degree of proof that you are just as paranoid in real life as you appear to be on the internet via your "writings"

m: >Oh Well. Better luck next time. _______

=Moley=

rk: Forgive me =Moley= for snipping your irrelevant comments clearly designed to misdirect reader attention away from the real issue, that being the current Government/Media sponsored/supported mind control/disinformation agent provocateurs hired to prevent serious discussion from forming and/or to control and regulate the flow of information of these internet newsgroups/forums.

rk: Let's just focus on your one statement regarding "paranoia."

rk: Have you heard the one about "It isn't paranoia if its TRUE?!!

rk:The actual transcription of the call which may be read in this another part of this same thread was offered as "hard evidence" to expose the ongoing disinformation campaign launched by "spin doctors" such as yourself who hide behind a host of aliases such as "=moley=" and "AFAB Bullyette," who, if the attentive reader were to pay close attention, would see posts which have a definite ROYBOT flavor to these libelous , defamatory articles.

rk:To refresh your memory, this thread titled " Calling All Integral Journalists--Calling All Integral Journalists!!" arose from the following pro-masters disinformation agent who writes as if he/she had first hand information (the style is reminiscent of Roybot ed wilkinson who dropped the alias of Agent Sir Ed but is still posting a great deal on the Town Square Forum under a host of names) regarding my being barred from calling into the talk radio station, then owned by the Roy Masters family. Here is what "AFAB Bullyette said:

From: AFAB Bullyette <unknown> wrote:

AFABB: Roybots

AFABB: Roy Masters had a call-in radio show in the Oregon area and Ray used to make a fool of himself by bugging the show constantly to have his say. He got so bad that Roy finally had him rejected as a caller. Roy Masters also eschews the hypnotic/mind control theme. Look on the web ,if you like, for his web page. Ray calls anyone who even agrees on one point with Roy Masters a "Roybot". Which is odd, because Ray writes more in the style of Roy Masters than anyone I've seen responding to Ray.

rk: I ask you now, do the above comments even approximate the facts?

rk: I will leave two truisms for you and yours to ponder while you consider what your future holds for you.

rk: Hard evidence "talks while bullshit walks." and rk: It isn't paranoia if its TRUE!!!.

rk: As to the other hard evidence, thats up to the FBI to release when the politically correct thinking indoctrinated populace decide they've had enough of supporting Federal Officials guilty of Malfeasance in office.

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

At 05:23 PM 9/22/00 -0700, Suzanne wrote:

rk:This post was issued yesterday, 9/23/2000. As of this writing, it has not reached my local screen. It is unknown to what degree it has been blocked/distributed on these newsgroups/forums. For that reason, it is being repeated with a few additional clarifying comments.

rk: Let us see if this article gets out (at least to my own screen). It would appear my anonymous detractors are pulling out all of the stops. It seems they are unable to meet with and deal directly with the Truth of my posts, so they find themselves with no other alternative but to dig into their "black bag" of "dirty tricks" and use underhanded technical means to prevent my Truth from reaching your consciousness.

Ray,

s: can't help but wonder if i am being monitored because i spend time on your site.

rk: You are. I monitor visitors to my site. It is wise to know whom one is addressing when so many hypocrites proliferate on these Internet newsgroups/forums.

s: i have read your book. seems the subject isn't really what most people are interested in or want to hear about.

rk: Why should that come as a surprise to you and/or other serious Spiritual Pilgrims?

rk: The average "politically correct-thinking." dumbed down, conditioned ignoramus operates at the "Talk About" stage, the stage of rank gossip.

rk: They are incapable of rising above anonymously launched one-liner cheap shots, personal ad hominem attacks, and their jot-and-tittle, out of context misdirections designed to lead the unaware reader onto some inane tangent which appeals to the lowest common denominator of human consciousness. If not doing that, they remain silent, struck "dumb" if you will, held fast by the fear they have of exposing their ignorance to the world. One need only look at the responses to my posts for that fact to become self-evident to even the dullest of intellects.

i am 52 years old and have not met anyone who hasn't or probably would not think i was schzophrenic when i speak of such heresy.

rk: Be prepared for such character assassination. That is all ignoramuses are capable of. It arises from ignorance and adopts the form of compensatory "FACE SAVING." Unable to create, they can only tear down. The shock of it all is quite undeniable when they see their own reflections sent back to them as they stand too long before a man (mirror) of Truth. Hence their adopted anonymous one-liner, hit and run tactics.

s: i find myself in the middle of two places. seeing the truth but still conditioned and stuck in the matrix unable as yet to gather the many pieces of my will to shift my conciousness.

s: thank you ray for your book and this site, i resonate to the truth here.

Dear Suzanne,

Have Faith. Do not waver in the face of adversity. All who live their Truth must face their own tests unflinchingly when they finally come to the realization that the world they live in is not what it appears to be. It is clarity of sight that liberates one from such spellbinding illusions.

Use the mind (intellect) for technical problem solving. In all other matters beyond that, be quiet, relax, be aware. Trust the spirit which guides you via direct perception. Do that, and the right thing at the right time will present itself as action in the moment. Live your Truth. Learn well its unique vibration. Trust that subtle vibration implicitly. That is all the protection you will ever need in this life.

That is the dying to the known, Suzanne. Trust yourself in what is directly perceived; for only in direct perception, untainted by judgment, can Truth be perceived.

That is the resurrection of the Spirit. It is the transition from the fragmented, dualistic Intellect to the nondualistic, holistic resonance of Truth. Pay attention. Be aware, both of the inner and the outer. That is true Meditation. It is simple until you try to put it into words. You will see what I mean.

For what it's worth, Suzanne, I do not see any problem in your comments.

Being between "two places," as you have so described, in a dualism-based consciousness, is not a sign of schizophrenia, but may well be a sign of balance, a state of consciousness quite unique in an otherwise unbalanced world. That is, of course, unless such vibration of "betweenness" is causing you undue concern with not fitting into an "unfit" world.

The fact that you remain uncomfortable with it is merely lingering self-doubt reacting to pressures exerted upon you by habitual relationships.

Relax, let the spirit of infinite Intelligence guide you, and life shall be an effortless unfoldment despite its appearances to other surrounding, interpreting Intellects, who seek to make you doubt yourself.

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

Suzanne wrote:

Dear Ray, I apologize for the magnets of hate my post generated.

To all who interpreted the post as an admission of mental illness, you must be using the reptile part of your brain or just simply using it as an attack (on ray) platform.

You should wake up and smell what you are shoveling and then get a grip.

One would certainly have to be ignorant/asleep not to get your contemptuous and hateful gist.

While its sometimes easy not to understand the simple truth and to get it, (of course that's not your job) try to accept the fact that more people are waking up to what is being said on this site ,and as far as you thinking I am a ray groupie, I say I am happy to disappoint you as its not my style nor does he need any.

The article pointing to the current Petition to Remove War Powers Act of 1917 was posted by me on September 12th, 2000, 16 days ago.

SEE: http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?republic

As of today, Sept 28th, 2000, there are 265 signatures on the petition. Consider, if you will, that out of a country populated by approximately 260 million people only 265 persons have shown the insight and the ability to act rationally and independently in defense of their Constitutionally-guaranteed Freedoms.

Are you the "ONE in a MILLION" who has displayed even a scintilla of Intelligence in this matter?

It is this very "War Powers Act" which shall be the diabolical instrument that shall cause America to be sold into slavery by its own elected government officials.

It is this War Powers Act which empowers President Clinton To:

Suspend the Constitution.

Declare Martial Law.

Allow FEMA to use foreign UN Peacekeepers on American soil to lead the obedient, automaton-like American *sheeple* into the "New World Order."

For the last several years, as a spiritually sighted individual, I have been engaged in a personal struggle to hold my government responsible for their STONEWALLING of an FBI investigation into a campaign of government/media sponsored/supported Mind Control/Disinformation perpetrated upon unwary American citizens who use the Internet.

Being stonewalled by the White House, the FBI, Oregon Senators Ron Wyden and Gordon Smith, journalist Matt Drudge, and the Portland-based Oregonian newspaper along with other minor newspapers (anybody see any mention of this outside of the Internet or anywhere in any of our country's privately owned media? And you still think the dissemination of news is not controlled by the mind controllers, eh?) I brought the issue to the Internet. I did so because I thought I was addressing Intelligent Human Beings capable of taking responsibility for their own lives and exerting some intelligent control over their government. I see now that I may well have been mistaken.

The reduced level of awareness of my Internet audience is glaringly clear to me as testified to by the number of signatures affixed to this important petition, a petition which impacts the very viability of our Constitution-based Government. Certainly the numbers ought to bring to anyone with a scintilla of insight, clarity of the profound impact that MIND CONTROL has had upon the Millions of conditioned, dumbed down, "politically correct-thinking," emotionally unbalanced, reactionary, poll driven, automatically-responding automatons who slumber their lives away in a debilitated state of consciousness.

The Latin phrase "Res ipsa loquitor"; i.e., "It speaks for itself," says it all, doesn't it?

It is this shocking evidence of the prevailing lack of intelligence now operant in our society which indicts us all as little more than a collective of ignoramuses.

rk: How else can such demonstrable apathy be rationalized?

Why would an average citizen prefer to take up arms in a bloody revolution, to kill and/or be killed for a vainglorious heroic concept which has been inserted into their hypnotically receptive, malleable, suggestible intellect by their mind controlling handlers, than to hold their own elected/appointed Government Officials responsible through timely intelligent action?

It is not the act of an intelligent, free people, is it? It is the act of unbalanced reactionary human CANNONFODDER.

265 People out of a total population of 260 million. Ask yourselves -- WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE?

Has it not been said, "Narrow is the way to Salvation. Wide is the path to Destruction?" So far the numbers show where the future of our country lies. Certainly not in the intelligent hands of the roughly "ONE in a MILLION!!"

It has been said that a people shall always get the government they deserve. I say WE DESERVE BETTER!

Isn't it time you woke up, AMERICA?

The future of our country lies in your hands!!

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

Raymond Karczewski wrote:

Here is the latest assault upon my character, reputation and credibility because of my writings on the Internet.

These are but a few responses to the "Rescinding of the War Powers Act of 1917" petition and other recent serious articles written by me.

Note their origin. Sound familiar, don't they? Why not? They arise from the same anonymous, misdirecting Government/Media Sponsored/Supported Disinformation Agents I have been writing about for years.

I have been subjected to these kinds of attacks on an almost daily basis over the last five years. Not only have I been attacked, but my wife Anita has also been targeted for such libelous attacks.

Keep in mind, their NEXT TARGET MAY WELL BE YOU!!!

Each of you reading this must ask yourself if such libel is protected under our Right to Free Speech. Can there be Free Speech without taking responsibility for one's words?

Could these Disinformation Agents operate in the manner they do now if they were required to affix their true name, their true identities in order to responsibly back up their words? In other words, can there truely be free speech without responsibility? These government/media provocateurs are destroying your Right to Free Speech through such anonymous irresponsible, reprehensible. conspiratorial, defamatory tactics.

Do you want to retain your Constitutional Right to Free Speech?

Continue to procrastinate as is indicated by your present momentum and FREE SPEECH shall become a thing of the past.

Without a platform for serious and responsible dialogue (which, by the way, is rapidly losing ground to the vicious, libelous misdirections, disruptions and intimidation tactics at the hands of these professional Disinformation Agents assigned to prowl these newsgroups/forums), your only information will come to you through the government and privately-owned media.

The present Government/Media STONE WALLED FBI Investigation of my Criminal Complaint lodged with the Medford, Oregon office of the FBI on November 2nd, 1997 would reveal the links these individuals have with government and media. That revelation, however, would rock this country. It would expose the mind control structure implemented on the Internet by government/media/intelligence community mind controllers who commonly use such provocateurs/shills to infiltrate, disrupt the flow of information, and wreak confusion in their wake.

Should you tire of reading the libelous comments below, go directly to the bottom of this article and heed the simple suggestion. Only a Criminal Investigation will stop this kind of government/media sponsored crime against its citizens.

The following libelous attacks arise from the keyboards of ed wilkinson and other assorted anonymous government/media disinformation agents who, through disruption, intimidation, and character assassination control the flow of information on public Usenet Newsgroups/Forums

Re: Are You "ONE in a MILLION"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:13:57 GMT

From: Abedindego (unknown)

Please stop, Ray...

I wake up every morning, Ray, and the sun is in the sky. Not much changes in my life. I go about my daily activities, the things I enjoy, and the things that motivate me. It's not that tough. Be good to folks, don't complain, it could be worse, yadda, yadda, yadda... Who do you feel is trying to control you. I have a suggestion Ray, seriously... turn off the little box, go outside, drive to the gorge, mt. hood, or the coast, take a look. NO ONE is after you Ray. You are wasting your gift of life focusing on your paranoid delusions... get help.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```

Dear Mr Raymond K.......................................

Re: Are You "ONE in a MILLION"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:21:05 GMT

From: BoB White, Information Agent (unknown)

I have been diagnosed as paranoid, schitzoid...delusional, obsessive complusive, with slight tremors and a christ complex, and feel I can be over service to you since the Manson family is no-longer recuiting. (Charlie is the real Messiah) I is my fervent hope that I could come over and just chat sometime. I feel I need something to do, and since all my needs are met with section 8 housing and SSI checks, I was hoping I could help get your word out to people without a scintilla. Oh yeah I also have some sinsemillia and some tricyclids I can share. Awaiting your response, as I repeatitively pace the floor, and wring my hands.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``````

You're hardly one to speak

Re: What's Wrong with America? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:31:27 GMT

From: Learn from your own asinine mistakes (unknown)

So you're back now huh? After your shocking display of ignorance, aggression, and stunning arrogance you're back to insulting virtually the whole of creation? Didn't you learn anything from the stupid spectacle you put on this week? After not even bothering to check the archives, you start attacking your imaginary coalition of mind-control foes and now you are calling anyone else an "ignoramus?" By the way, save the Latin usage for those who know it: you ***obviously*** couldn't read anything written in Latin, and are trying to make strangers believe you have a scintilla of intelligence and education. You don't, and we all know a lot beter than to think like that given your asinine history of paranoia and egomania. Get a job, stop sucking away public moneys after decades of living like a parasite, and maybe your opinion will eventually count with someone. It certainly doesn't now.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LEARN why don't you?

Re: What's Wrong with America? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:38:55 GMT

From: Hoping you were hospitalized (unknown)

Would you please LEARN from what you've done here Ray? Check the responses to your self-serving idiocy and ask yourself the question: who the hell would sign anything related to you, written by you, or endorsed by you? No one sane, that's who. Apparently 256 psychos are willing to have anything to do with you, but that's about it. Look at who exactly takes you seriously: you're a huge joke, a schizophrenic egomaniac, and the rest of us take political and social reality way too seriously to treat it like the farce you've made it out to be. Shut up already you ass. I was hoping too that you had been hospitalized: if Anita won't do anything to help you I hope someone else will.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Even if any of this were true

Re: What's Wrong with America? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:42:43 GMT

From: Buy a clue then Ray, on the taxpayers (unknown)

Even if any of this were true, you're not the person to organize the effort. You've so thoroughly undercut any semblance of credibility and intelligence ***no one can possibly take you seriously.*** Let someone else take over the petition effort if you want it to get off the ground. The fact no one will sign your petition is a directly expression of our contempt for you, or haven't you figured even that out already?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Congratulations Ray

Re: What's Wrong with America? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:45:16 GMT

From: Sicker and sicker and sicker and sicker (unknown)

With this latest stunt you're edging out Ed Wollman in the Usenet "kookoff." You just get sicker and sicker, right Ray?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

Where exactly should Ray go?

Re: Move on Ray: you've got no credibility here (Try another forum PLEASE)

Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:34:38 GMT

From: Ray's a monumental joke everywhere (unknown)

That's the point: he already posts to scores of forums and is taken seriously *nowhere.* I am, however, astonished that 258 people were actually willing to sign their names to anything associated with him: I would have bet my bottom dollar no one would ever do such a ridiculous thing. So maybe there is a forum for Ray somewhere. In that case, please find it Ray: this is not the one.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

did ray's medicine kick in?

Re: Town Square (New Admin)

Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:23:26 GMT

From: Dr. Nick (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No! He must be in court or jail today.

Re: did ray's medicine kick in? (Dr. Nick)

Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:37:56 GMT

From: Thank the Forum Gods (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

roy sold the stations,dude.get current

Re: Re: Calling All Integral Journalists-- (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 04:45:27 GMT

From: live in this century, please (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

Beyond your grandiose conceit

Re: One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap in Consciousness (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 20:16:07 GMT

From: Don't spread your sickness you assh**e (unknown)

You should be locked up for dispensing advice you're not qualified to give: telling preople who are worried about their psychiatric problems that they're perfectly healthy is irresponsible, to say the least, and dangerous. The woman may well be quite sick and in need of help; she apparently feels this may be the case. Did you have any honesty about yourself and tell her about your own history and diagnoses? Did you show her the questions and criticisms you've received from medical professionals? No, of course you didn't. This is low, vicious behavior even for you Ray.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

So a borderline schizophrenic admires you?

Re: One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap in Consciousness (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 20:20:55 GMT

From: Gross deceit (unknown)

You must feel so proud Ray. Now you can feel superior to someone, even if she herself admits she's unwell. So now you're actively encouraging people to not receive medical attention so you can feel like some big man. You're contemptable.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Ray you're a real pig

Re: One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap in Consciousness (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 20:23:19 GMT

From: Pretty mean even for Ray (unknown)

Even someone as sick as you must know better than to encourage another person who feels she needs a doctor to embrace her illness. To quote Anita, how do the two of you live with yourselves?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm very sorry for you Raymond

Re: One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap in Consciousness (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 20:30:49 GMT

From: Anita's as much to blame as Ray is (unknown)

Do you really feel so badly about yourself that you're compelled to post a "fan letter" from someone who admits she's sick? I feel bad that you are so disrespected and abused that you have to resort to tactics like this to find some sense of self-worth. 'm also sorry Anita refuses to help you; she is as much to blame for all this as you are.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Do this chick a favor Ray

Re: One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap in Consciousness (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 20:46:47 GMT

From: Only a face to face meeting will do it (unknown)

Meet with her face to face, if only for a few moments. Let her see what you are, instead of being duped by words on a screen. It takes about three minutes, if that, to see your extreme mental illness once people actually see you physically and know how u behave. Give the woman a chance at a happy life. I nvite her to visit with you: she's be running away screaming in no time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

What's wrong with you man?

Re: One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:16:14 GMT

From: Grow up Ray (unknown)

rk: Let us see if this article gets out (at least to my own screen). It would appear my anonymous detractors are pulling out all of the stops. It seems they are unable to meet with and deal directly with the Truth of my posts, so they find themselves wi no other alternative but to dig into their "black bag" of "dirty tricks" and use underhanded technical means to prevent my Truth from reaching your consciousness.

Stop being such a paranoid ass Ray: of course this got through two days ago. Did you somehow fail to miss the derisive reaction it got the first time around? It's just an excuse for you to repost a schizophrenic's "fan letter" ad infinitum, to scores to forums, just as you threatened to do. Check the archives you idiot and shut up already. No one's doing anything to you; you just want to make good and sure everyone know some psychotic chick somewhere takes you seriously. We don't. Moron.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ray you are obscenely self-indulgent

Re: One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:10:06 GMT

From: See archive post 16833 before attacking (unknown)

Egomania and absolute mental retardation make a lethal combination: you're walking, talking proof of this Ray. Haven't you learned how to use the archive hyperlinks? YOU CLICK ON THEM YOU ASS. Your original post has been there all along, but you don't even have the decency to look before you start lauching accusations of the most paranoid variety. Why do you reflexivly attack people instead of minimally informing yourself beforehand? Why do you think people hold you in such utter contempt? Learn how to think, and ***fall silent in shame.***

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Forget it Re: Ray you are obscenely self-indulgent (See archive post 16833 before attacking)

Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:45:19 GMT

From: Ray is a brainless, shameless assh**e (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~````

Learn English Ray

Re: One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:49:56 GMT

From: You're an abject fraud Ray Karczewski (unknown)

What "article" are you talking about Ray? You are such an illiterate fool you couldn't write an article if your life depended on it. Psychotic posts to the Townsquare Forum don't even begin to pass for articles: such abuse of language tells us just how insecure, desperate, and pathetic you really are. All you posted was a sad note some schizophrenic wrote to you hoping for some validation: where was this reviewed and published as an "article" you fraud?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is Hope

Re: Why There May Be NO Hope for this Country! (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:15:42 GMT From:

(unknown)

The drivel you read on the internet should not be mistaken for the intelligence or consience of America. It has become, in great part, a medium for the ignorant to remain anonymous and babble.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aren't you the guy with the Gambling Problem?

Re: Why There May Be NO Hope for this Country! (Raymond Karczewski) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:20:20 GMT

From: Pathetic Boob (unknown)

When I used to work in Nevada casinos, I'm sure you used to come and lose all your money, only to then make a spectacle of yourself when asked to leave. As I recall you felt you had outsmarted the casinos, were destined to win millions, and were being asked to leave as part of a conspiracy on the part of the casino owners to keep you from winning their property. You were kn n in several places for this, weren't you? Aren't you a big guy with a beard and a serious problem with aggression? Is this what you came up with to pass the time once all your money ran out? You're even more pathetic than before.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So let's see...

Re: Hell of a psychological profile (Lock up your kids folks!)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:20:43 GMT

From: Pull Yourself out of your own Muck Ray (unknown)

A paranoid egomaniac with obsessive-compulsive disorder, a Christ complex, an admitted history of deviant sex with animals, and a tax fraud with a gambling addiction. With every detail I learn about you Ray you sicken me beyond anything I dreamed possible. Fix yourself before you even dream of preaching to anyone else about how to live their lives.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Who would give this the time of day?

Re: Why There May Be NO Hope for this Country! (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:29:55 GMT

From: You're a gnat Ray (unknown)

rk: Being stonewalled by the White House, the FBI, Oregon Senators Ron Wyden and Gordon Smith, journalist Matt Drudge, and the Portland-based Oregonian newspaper along with other minor newspapers (anybody see any mention of this outside of the Internet or anywhere in any of our country's privately owned media? And you still think the dissemination of news is not controlled by the mind controllers, eh?)

For Christ's sake Ray: who in the media would give this waste of time any coverage at all? The only place you could ever get anything posted would be on open Internet forums (you couldn't even get onto restricted lists, I sure of it), so what exactly do you expect given the local and insignificant nature of your paranoid rantings? The only people who could possibly give a dam about any of this are the people directly threatened by your sick and abusive behavior.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How is free speech threatened?

Re: Why There May Be NO Hope for this Country! (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:36:57 GMT

From: OxyMORON (unknown)

Seeing as how you post, and repost, and rerepost, and rererepost constantly, and spend all your time threatening everyone around you, how exactly is free speech being threatened? With every threat you issue, you vitiate your own damned argument, though I know full well you don't have the minimal intelligence to see even this most basic fact.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ray's the Price we Pay for a Democratic Society

Re: How is free speech threatened? (OxyMORON)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:47:15 GMT

From: Tax Fraud Ray? (unknown)

True, we would all like nothing better than for Ray to get some medical attention and stop making such a disgusting spectacle of himself. But unless we're ready to start censoring everyone, we have to allow him to go on threatening the world. It's not a high price to pay in my opinion: Ray's a joke and everyone knows it. There are thousands of people like him, who all think they're God and that the governement is out to get them, but as long as they make good and clear how insane they are we have no problem. As far as Ray goes, he's made this crystal clear, so what are a few words on a computer screen given the drsatic alternative? Wh bugs me is the thought we're paying him tax money not only so he doesn't have to work for decades, but so he can go to Nevada casinos and gamble it all away: this has got to be actionable, doesn't it?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You are an unconscionable ass, is this not so?

Re: Why There May Be NO Hope for this Country! (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:37:33 GMT

From: Stilted idiot (unknown)

You have nothing of substance to say to the world, have you not? You are unparalleled in your self-serving idiocy, think you not this be the case? You ought to hold your tongue in shame, ought you not?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

Raymond Karczewski

Re: Town Square (New Admin)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:59:19 GMT

From: *Doe* & *Ti* need Ray (unknown)

Dear Raymond, You are so right, and I just don't understand why others don't just sell everything and follow you 'singularly' and escape their wretched 'dualism'. Einstein was such a fool when he said "true intellingence is the ability to hold to opposing ideas in one mind". He was such a dualistic simpleton ingnoraymus. If only you could have been there to set him straight. Ray, w, you MUST keep this secret, but Hale-Bopp is doing another fly-by *cloaked* for your protection, we need you more than ever, you know what to do. Please have Anita by the appropriate Tennis Shoes, we have room for two. The weather is fine, and we await your guidance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A brief reference guide Ray, helps with half the voices

Re: Dear Mr Raymond K.......................................(BoB White, Information Agent)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:43:49 GMT

From: Bob White (unknown)

Adapin Norfranil AMITRYPTILINE Norpramin AMOXAPINE NORTRIPTYLINE Anafranil Novo-Doxepin Apo-Amitriptyline Novopramine Apo-Imipramine Novo-Tripramine Apo-Trimip Novotriptyn Asendin Pamelor Aventyl Pertofrane CLOMIPRAMINE PMS Amitriptyline DESIPRAMINE PMS Impramine DOXEPIN PROTIPTYLINE Elavil Rhotrimine Emitrip Sinequan Endep Surmontil Enovil Tipramine IMIPRAMINE Tofranil Impril Tofranil-PM Janimine Triadapin Levate TRIMIPRAMINE Limbitrol Triptil Limbitrol DS Vivactil

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

This helps with the other half of the voices Ray

Re: Dear Mr Raymond K....................................... (BoB White, Information Agent)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:49:25 GMT

From: your friend in Hell - Bob (unknown)

Six breakthrough atypical antipsychotic drugs are profiled, including clozapine (Clozaril), risperidone (Risperdal), olanzapine (Zyprexa), quetiapine (Seroquel), sertindole (Serlect), and ziprasidone (Zeldox).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Answer instead of Mindlessly Repeating Yourself

Re: Are You "ONE in a MILLION"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:35:45 GMT

From: What the Hell is Wrong with You Man? (unknown)

1.You can't amend the Constitution by statute. 2. An unconstitutional statute is not law. 3. There is no War Powers Act of 1917 (furnish cite). This is an old ploy that has been disproved many times.

So again Ray: where do you claim you went from high school into law school? Why won't you answer even this most simple of questions? How is signing a petition to combat a non-existant threat of any import to anyone Ray? And how does insulting everyone who understands this basic fact make you feel like some big man? Are you simply going to keep reposting the same nonsensical garbage, or are you FINALLY going to wake up from your brain-dead torpor? You obviously read the reactions to your original posts since you ripped off words from the responses and worked them into your inane reposts: what the hell is wrong with you that you cannot handle any real exchange of ideas?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

I told you this guy would never answer you

Re: Answer instead of Mindlessly Repeating Yourself (What the Hell is Wrong with You Man?)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:37:27 GMT

From: He can't: he's got nothing to argue (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No Indictment of Your Critics Raymond

Re: Are You "ONE in a MILLION"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:43:26 GMT

From: For God's Sake Move on with Your Life (unknown)

Raymond, you obviously cannot answer any of the questions that have been put to you; please, in the name of dignity and intelligence, stop reposting the same psychotic messages and move on with your life. The only thing controlling you is your own mental illness, and pretending everyone else in the world is sick except you doesn't make you any better. If you absolutely refuse all medical attention, maybe finding a part-time job and getting out would help you recover reality. It would also help you find some self-respect, which you are obviously and painfully lacking. As it is you're just lost in your own delusions of rsecution and grandeur, and I see no end of this in sight except your own death. Do something to make yourself better before it's too late.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

STOP RESPONDING TO RAY'S POSTS !

Re: Are You "ONE in a MILLION"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:45:37 GMT

From: Hopjacker (unknown)

The only reason he posts here is because he thinks he is "controlling" you all into responding. Just ignore him.......

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ray is safer on the Internet than at my door

Re: STOP RESPONDING TO RAY'S POSTS ! (Hopjacker)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:47:24 GMT

From: Ray's beleagured neighbor (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

That I'm sure is true, but doesn't he post on

Re: Ray is safer on the Internet than at my door (Ray's beleagured neighbor)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:48:37 GMT

From: Hopjacker (unknown)

tons of other forums too ? Let those guys deal with him.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ray will be the last person to post on this forum

Re: Damned right there's hope (Ray can't live forever)

Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:39:13 GMT

From: the guy is like Teflon (TM) (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Teflon isn't Exactly the Substance

Re: Ray will be the last person to post on this forum (the guy is like Teflon (TM))

Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:19:30 GMT

From: (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yep, kind of like a Flea Market or Swap Meet or whatever

Re: Stop responding to Ray's posts....You're feeding his (Hopjacker)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:12:19 GMT

From: JB (unknown)

one calls those things. You have to weed through the junk to find something that looks good.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Guy's a Textbook Example

Re: Gambling addiction too Ray? (So par for the course)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:57:38 GMT

From: Set Any Fires Recently Ray? (unknown

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Just Move! --To Cuba Re: Are You "ONE in a MILLION"? (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:25:04 GMT

From: (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Amen to that Brother Re: Just Move! --To Cuba

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:45:01 GMT

From: Castro deserves you (unknown)

If you want to find out what mind-control means, stop playing little games and go Ray. O wait, I almost forgot: no one would let you past the borders given your obvious psychosis.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

09/30/2000

Midwinter midwinter@no.mail.please

Raymond Karczewski arkent@internetcds.com wrote in message news:39d5b022.23395747@reader.meganews.com...

rk: > This case is unique in that conspiracies, by their very nature, are tough to prove. Not so, this one! This one's like "falling off a log." Why? Because it is all documented. The evidence is available for all to see.

m: Then why have you spent, what was it, five years trying to prove it sufficiently to get someone to do something about it?

rk: You miss the point. These Internet newsgroups/forums are not the venue for "proof." As they exist presently, one finds they are just an arena for dualistic chaos and confusion, offering their contributors/users an opportunity for endless wrangling, intrigue, deception and chaos.

rk: A better question would be why do the words of a single, solitary man of Truth, standing alone, have such an explosive effect upon the bassackward minds of a slumbering, blind, inert, apathetic, dumbed-down, fantasy-oriented, mind controlled, computer-using humanity? That is why this issue has been brought to the attention of our Federal executive and judicial officials. Therein lies the proper venue for the offering of "proof."

m: After all, the more people are involved in a conspiracy the harder it is to keep that conspiracy secure - and yet the logical assumption based on your failure to get anyone to act on this is that EVERYONE is in on it...

rk: Let all note that this is your statement, not mine.

rk: > Facts? Facts? What facts? You have yet to come up with anything remotely resembling a fact. But then again, that's what Disinformation Agents do, don't they? You forked-tongued folks deal in innuendo, in rumor, in gossip, in intimidation, in mind control, but FACTS? What kind of Disinformation Agent deals in FACTS?

m: What do you know of facts, Raymond? Someone challenges your claims and they are automatically "disinformation agents"?

rk: With respects to your judgmental "wide brush" painting of all who disagree with me as being "disinformation agents," perhaps now is the time to draw reader attention to your dubious posting history in the DejaNews Archives as "midwinter." You have a remarkably short posting life span as "midwinter," wouldn't you say? Your "MO" certainly fits in with the "Method of Operation" used by other AFAB BULLY/SKEPTICULTIST/ROYBOT Disinformation Agents on the Internet. Perhaps it is also time to ask of you -- How many other names and phony email addresses have you used/do you use on these newsgroups/forums, "midwinter?"

m: Since (as far as I can tell) most people seem to disagree with you or outright disbelieve you, this would make the majority of posters here "disinformation agents"?

rk: Just what is it you would like to share with the rest of the readers of this newsgroup/forum about the "majority of the same posters using different names" whose only purpose is to attack and misdirect attention away from my articles?

rk: > Here is a simple way for even the dullest of intellects to discern who is speaking the Truth and who is the deceiver. Are you ready for the obvious? Here it is -- I AM the one calling for an FBI Investigation in this issue. I AM the one voluntarily placing myself under the same light of scrutiny that you and the others shall endure.

m: You ARE the one who fails to realise the full cost of an investigation such as the one you demand.

rk: I fully realize what I am asking. I also fully realize the cost of most of the run-of-the-mill, busy-work, gossip-generating, keep-em-entertained, soap opera type Congressional/governmentally-inspired investigations purposely designed to occupy public attention, misdirecting them onto endless, go-nowhere tangents while it frees up government which is bent on selling its people into the slavery of the New World Order.

m: The FBI would have a hard time explaining to the American taxpayer why they frittered away so many millions of dollars based on the simple and un-evidenced word of a single "campaigner" (I can't think of any other polite alternatives to "crank"), wouldn't they?

rk: When did our federal government ever have a hard time explaining to the American taxpayer just how they were able to fritter away millions of dollars? Are we living in the same country? Our BASSACKWARD society, primed and fueled by such intrigue and hypocrisy, speaks for itself, does it not?

rk: > While I initiate this action, you and your yahoo buddies are tapdancing like Hell trying to misdirect public awareness away from that very SIMPLE fact.

m: I agree there's little point in people trying to discredit you personally - it's a fruitless quest since you seem destined to do that yourself.

rk: Perhaps you will rise above such a say-nothing, sterile statement and share with the readers of this newsgroup/forum specific evidence which would support such claims before you, too, disappear into the shadows of USENET only to emerge under another name, another mask, another phony email drop so that you may establish the "illusion of numbers" who condemn my posts? After all, isn't such deception the very hallmark of a professional mind control/disinformation agent?

m: Raymond, the fact that you have failed for so long to get any action on this great conspiracy theory of yours is down to two possibilities: 1) EVERYONE on this group, everyone working for law enforcement or for the government, everyone who visits your site - all these people are in on the conspiracy, or 2) There is no conspiracy. I know which I think is the most likely alternative.

rk: My, my, how narrow of mind for you to list but two such limited, self-serving, wishful-thinking alternatives while the Truth is carefully evaded.

rk: You see, after five years of these time-tested, disinformation "village idiot" ad hominem attack tactics by a "Legion" of muck-flinging hypocrites employed to discredit my writings, the Truth of my posts still comes shining through regardless of how many unbalanced yahoos band together in their attempt to smear, distort and misirect the Truth they observe about themselves in the Mirror of Truth.

rk: What you have actually established and demonstrated to a sleeping populace is my CREDIBILITY. This has been an "exorcism"; i.e., the dispelling of dualistic illusion by the ONE holistic (nondualism) spirit of Truth.

rk: I AM still here. strong and viable, while diminished, deceptive yahoos scurry in and out of the shadows re-emerging from time to time with different identities. I AM whole. They reek of fragmentation. I AM balanced. They stumble about blindly in an unstable consciousness. I AM stronger than ever. They wither and shrivel up when the light of Truth is shone upon them. I AM here to release the Living Spirit from the confines of the Dead Intellect of Civilized man. They are content merely to drag others down to feed upon. Such is the nature of the parasitical "living dead" bent upon "unholy" (fragmented) service to their own Hellish existence.

rk: Only in Hell does "Misery love Company."

rk: Consider, if you will, the indestructible nature of Truth -- "The gates of Hell shall not prevail against it." rk: That is the lesson of the last five years, is it not?

rk: That, "midwinter" is what has been brought to the attention of the readers of these newsgroups/forums for the last five years.

ama semper quisquis noces

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

midwinter

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 13:28:53 +0100, "Midwinter" midwinter@no.mail.please wrote:

Raymond Karczewski arkent@internetcds.com wrote in message news:39d67e95.586345@reader.meganews.com...

rk: >> You miss the point. These Internet newsgroups/forums are not the venue for "proof." As they exist presently, one finds they are just an arena for dualistic chaos and confusion, offering their contributors/users an opportunity for endless wrangling, intrigue, deception and chaos.

m: >Yes, they are just that. They are indeed full of chaos and confusion. And I agree wholeheartedly that they are not the venue for "proof". So why do you spend so much time here trying to convince us of your conspiracy theory?

rk: What Conspiracy Theory? My writings are not based in theory, but in the resonant energy of Truth. Conceptually-driven Intellects are incapable of resonating with that unique energy beyond duality and so internalize my Truth as theory. They, like you, are addicted to the "Letter of the Word" and therefore miss the Spirit of the word gained by telepathic resonance which supplements flawed human language to make the communication whole. As such, they are "blind" to the Truth. Though they are unable to See the Truth, their intellectual limitation is felt nevertheless. It is this factor of limitation which points to their spiritual ignorance that causes unbalanced hypocrites who hide behind "highly polished and packaged" words and images to go off the scale emotionally when their fragmented energy is exposed as they stand before the Mirror of Truth.

m: > Ultimately you are wasting your time - since those who disbelieve will continue to do so, and those few who may believe you can do nothing about it anyway.

rk: Power oriented mind controllers who rely upon the *illusion of numbers* count upon that typical, ignorant response by the conditioned, civilized automaton, don't they?

rk: >>A better question would be why do the words of a single, solitary man of Truth, standing alone, have such an explosive effect upon the bassackward minds of a slumbering, blind, inert, apathetic, dumbed-down, fantasy-oriented, mind controlled, computer-using humanity?

m: >No, an even better question would be: What makes you THINK your words have had an explosive effect on the (etc etc) computer-using community?

rk: All you have to do to SEE the answer to your question is read the responses to my posts. "Thinking" doesn't even enter into it, does it?

m: > How many Usenet users do you think are sitting at their screens thinking, "God damn, you know, Raymond's onto something"? If that effect is there, it's not been very obvious in FIVE YEARS, has it?

rk: Over the past five years have I not demonstrated, beyond debate, the *limitation of thinking*when one is called upon to deal with problems which are "nontechnical" in nature?

rk: In *technical (mechanical) problem solving* it has been rightfully said that a "mind (Intellect) is a terrible thing to waste." However, in dealing with all else (nontechnical, nonmechanical -- LIFE) beyond the limited technical realm, only the Spiritually Sighted fully understand that the "mind (Intellect) is a terrible thing to use."

rk: To live trapped in the prison cell of one's own conditioned, dualistic, conceptually driven intellect is to live in Hell, is it not?

rk: The secret to peace on earth is to live in Atonement with Truth -- the Supreme nondualistic energy of Infinite Intelligence.

rk:Man's "Fall from Grace" can be traced to his seduction into the realm of a dualistic intellect which filters the nondualistic energy of life by conceptualizing such pristine energy through the dualistic screen of judgment. That simple step away from Truth is the corruption of human consciousness responsible for transforming the nondualistic energy of Peace on Earth to the dualistic energy of Hell on Earth.

rk:It is so simple that conditioned ignoramuses, who must first be made to doubt themselves by introducing the concept of complexity into their consciousness, are unable to reconcile what they see with the conditioned concept they hold as their standard. Such inculcated standards are the links by which Satanically-driven (dualistic) mind controllers are given the "power" to control such ignoramuses from the cradle to the grave.

rk: >> That is why this issue has been brought to the attention of our Federal executive and judicial officials.

m: >Why what? "That is why" implies a reason, and I can't see one. This statement doesn't tie in with the last one. Why HAS this issue been brought to the attention of your Federal executive? Have you had any success?

rk: Your questions are moot, for they are being asked by a blind intellect which eschews the nondualistic Truth in lieu of satisfying its insatiable appetite for argument and debate over every "jot and tittle." In other words, you can't see the BIG PICTURE because you're so busy being lost in the forest chopping up twigs. Such twig gathering may keep you warm temporarily, but it will never lead you out of the forest of confusion.

rk: One only need look at the (same) words used by us. Then experience whose words, though nicely packaged, are sterile in content (limited) while the words of the other possess extraordinary resonating energy which cannot be stemmed by mere impotent peripheral debate.

m: >> After all, the more people are involved in a conspiracy the harder it is to keep that conspiracy secure - and yet the logical assumption based on your failure to get anyone to act on this is that EVERYONE is in on it...

rk: >> Let all note that this is your statement, not mine.

m: >Good Lord - so you really DO believe everyone's in on it?

rk: Again, you wish to impose your own judgment on me, yet at the same time, you understand its futility. I do not engage in what ignoramuses would term "belief."

m: > My God, Raymond, I'm beginning to feel guilty about challenging you - your problem is obviously more serious than I thought it was.

rk: Can you see (I am sure others have) how you have architected that zinger, "thinking" your skillful *packaging* of it would protect your from being discovered. Who better personify the ultimate of hypocrisy than those skilled in the Satanically-ruled realm of DIPLOMACY?

m: > Seriously, my friend, you need to find someone to talk to - and I'm not talking about ranting on a newsgroup.

rk: Remember the old saying--" With friends like you, who needs enemies?"

m: >> What do you know of facts, Raymond? Someone challenges your claims and they are automatically "disinformation agents"?

rk: >> With respects to your judgmental "wide brush" painting of all who disagree with me as being "disinformation agents," perhaps now is the time to draw reader attention to your dubious posting history in the DejaNews Archives as "midwinter." You have a remarkably short posting life span as "midwinter," wouldn't you say? Your "MO" certainly fits in with the "Method of Operation" used by other AFAB BULLY/SKEPTICULTIST/ROYBOT Disinformation Agents on the Internet. Perhaps it is also time to ask of you -- How many other names and phony email addresses have you used/do you use on these newsgroups/forums, "midwinter?"

m: >Oh, I've used several names on Usenet, Raymond - that I'll freely admit.

rk: Admit now or later -- makes no difference to me. Your energy shouts as that of a hypocrite busily plying his trade.

m: > My one rule is that I'll only ever use the one name on any particular group -so you've not seen me on *this* group as anyone other than Midwinter. And Midwinter I will remain until I leave this group. I'll not come back here as someone else. And my posts are indeed available for all to see on Deja.

rk: Without, of course, providing the readers with the links to previous posts under different names. Quite circuitous and deceptive, is it not? But then, not at all unexpected behavior for a disinformation agent, wouldn't you say?

m: >Now, to the key point - because I disagree with you, you genuinely believe therefore that I am one of your conspirators, your disinformation agents...I am out to control your mind through my cunning wiles, yes?

rk: I suggest you'll play Hell trying to control my mind! I am merely mirroring the activities of government/media sponsored/supported mind controllers upon the unaware who are still subject to such insidious control techniques.

m:> What is my modus operandi, Ray?

rk: You are displaying it in this post. However, the spiritually blind will never be able to see it, will they? They, like you, require feedback (poll taking?) to see how their deceptions are being received. They have lost the ability to live atone with Truth -- which requires no reinforcement of numbers.

m: >> Since (as far as I can tell) most people seem to disagree with you or outright disbelieve you, this would make the majority of posters here "disinformation agents"?

rk: >> Just what is it you would like to share with the rest of the readers of this newsgroup/forum about the "majority of the same posters using different names" whose only purpose is to attack and misdirect attention away from my articles?

m: >I don't know. What is it? Would you like me to say that I'm just one person using ALL THESE NAMES just to "get" you?

rk: I have no such desires, for I do not engage in debate. It is you and other ignoramuses who seek to enveigle others into such destructive behavior.

m: In which case, what's the point you posting your raving here?

rk: Raving? Surely you see another ill-concieved zinger you've just tossed out? Even the rankest of ignoramuses begins to get the picture of who and what they are actually seeing when they stand too long before the Mirror of Truth.

m: > What's the point of trying to convert the person who's persecuting you, Ray?

rk: And where exactly have you found any evidence of missionary/conversion work on my part? I simply speak the Truth of What IS unfolding in the moment, do I not?

m: > I think, honestly, the thing that misdirects people from the purpose of your articles is that your articles have no reliable content apart from your own paranoid beliefs that everyone's out to get you.

rk: "Thinking honestly" is itself an expressed hypocricy, is it not? All you can do is descend further into the depths of your own conditioned confusion while riding that "express train" through Hell.

m: Ray, I'm no psychologist and I don't know the best way of dealing with people who are suffering from a persecution complex, but I honestly think you'd start to enjoy life more if you didn't have to keep looking over your shoulder all the time.

rk: Are you not speaking of your own projected dualistic judgment? You seem to be talking through your hat -- claiming not to be a psychologist capable of making a qualified judgment, yet, nevertheless, you don't hesitate to throw out such judgment. Let's face it, "midwinter," you are incapable of understanding one such as I who resonates at a level of consciousness beyond your ken.

m: > There are people who can help you.

rk: To do what?

m: >> The FBI would have a hard time explaining to the American taxpayer why they frittered away so many millions of dollars based on the simple and un-evidenced word of a single "campaigner" (I can't think of any other polite alternatives to "crank"), wouldn't they?

rk: >> When did our federal government ever have a hard time explaining to the American taxpayer just how they were able to fritter away millions of dollars? Are we living in the same country?

m: >No, we're not - you're in the United States and I'm in the UK.

rk: Are you attempting to make the case to all who read your post that you could not be a government intelligence agent or a reporting journalist for the media on foreign assignment? Hell, such an all-pervasive, world-wide organized mind-controlling structure already in place and functioning daily, has been the whole point of my postings over the last five years.

m: > But you're talking about getting the FBI to engage in a full-scale public investigation into government mind- control. Now, I don't know how the US public might view such things, but I can't imagine that even the early stages of such a far-reaching investigation could be kept quiet for long, can you? Maybe they'd employ the people who've kept such a comprehensive and unbreakable silence over the Roswell Incident, yes?

m: >> I agree there's little point in people trying to discredit you personally - it's a fruitless quest since you seem destined to do that yourself.

rk: >> Perhaps you will rise above such a say-nothing, sterile statement and share with the readers of this newsgroup/forum specific evidence which would support such claims before you, too, disappear into the shadows of USENET only to emerge under another name, another mask, another phony email drop so that you may establish the "illusion of numbers" who condemn my posts? After all, isn't such deception the very hallmark of a professional mind control/disinformation agent?

m: >Okay, I'll explain. You, Ray, deride the integrity of the Usenet forum.

rk: I have not derided anything. I have pointed out the obvious, which is *hidden in plain sight,* although invisible to the vibratory level of blind, word-bound ignoramuses.

m: >You claim that I, as well as all the others here, are all in collaboration to "get" you.

rk: Again, that is YOUR statement, not mine -- unless, of course, you wish to share with the readers of these newsgroups/forums any inside information you may have as to the identity and motive of "...all the others here...?"

m: > So *why use Usenet as your forum of choice to get your point across*?

rk: I have said it many times before, but apparently it bears repeating. These Internet Newsgroup/Forums are the last Bastion of Freedom, not yet under the direct control of the few who own the prevailing means to control the public dissemination of information. I'll not go any further into it. I am sure you get the picture.

m; > I've not yet seen anyone agreeing with you - and that's because either everyone IS in on it, or because no-one believes you.

rk: Truth does not seek agreement. I do not seek agreement. One either sees the Truth or they do not. Belief is merely the means to control the minds of ignoramuses.

m: > Either way, you're trying to nail jelly to the ceiling in your attempts to wake *us* up to the Great Conspiracy. See what I mean? Therefore you are discrediting your own attempts to unveil this scandal.

rk: Again, your statement, not mine. Those who have the "eyes to see and the ears to hear" will see and hear my words. As for the rest (picture a lemming if you will) who engage in endless, go-nowhere debate over every jot and tittle -- well, you get the picture!

rk: >> You see, after five years of these time-tested, disinformation "village idiot" ad hominem attack tactics by a "Legion" of muck-flinging hypocrites employed to discredit my writings, the Truth of my posts still comes shining through regardless of how many unbalanced yahoos band together in their attempt to smear, distort and misirect the Truth they observe about themselves in the Mirror of Truth.

m: >Ray, I can only argue "ad hominem" - how can I do otherwise?

rk: I understand. Ignorance is Hell, is it not?

m: > To argue against someone's posts requires logical reasoning. In order to make logical reasoning work, there has to be some logic in the posts you're answering.

rk: Even you will admit that logic has its limitations, wouldn't you? There is nothing illogical about my writings. The fly in the ointment for most prideful ignoramuses who pull out the argument of logic, which is limited itself, is that my writings contain the spirit of Truth which reveals that which lies beyond the boundaries of a limited Intellect. Only in a BASSACKWARD world are logical hypocrites so prideful about their own limitation of consciousness.

m: > The point you're trying to make is so irrational that the comments themselves can't be effectively addressed.

rk: Beyond your comprehension, eh? See what I mean about the limitation of logic?

m: > Therefore I'm left with trying to make YOU see just how weird your claims sound in light of the complete lack of any real evidence you've been able to produce, either here or on your website.

rk: Those who stand with their eyes tightly shut, covered by their own hands to reinforce their darkness, can only shout to the world of their blindness. Thus, such limitedness makes them codependent upon others who are equally blind to assist them in navigating their way in the world. Have you not heard the one about "The blind leading the Blind?"

rk: >> I AM still here. strong and viable, while diminished, deceptive yahoos scurry in and out of the shadows re-emerging from time to time with different identities.

m: >In short, you are wasting your life, Ray! Can't you see it? You STAY here, you PERSIST in trying to get your claims recognised, and you spend ALL your time here just bickering with people like me, as well as those who don't believe in respect as strongly as I do. You're not benefitting from your persistence - you're achieving nothing here, and this while you claim yourself that "Usenet is not the venue for proof". WHY ARE YOU HERE, RAY?

rk: "Bicker"? Who is bickering here? Your gaze is affixed to that mirror again, is it not? Do you not note the energy of frustration expressed in your comments? Hell, isn't it?

rk; >> I AM balanced.

m: >Extremely debateable, I would have said. You believe the government is using the Internet to try to control our minds, your site asks visitors if they could be a "Christ with amnesia", you answer my comment that you're paranoid by telling me I'm actually someone else posting in disguise - and then you say you're BALANCED?

rk: YES! Hell, you already admitted to posting under different names, different aliases. Why not post with integrity and issue your true identity to back up your words? Too much to ask of a hypocrite, eh?

rk: >> That, "midwinter," is what has been brought to the attention of the readers of these newsgroups/forums for the last five years.

m: >And what has it gained you? What good has it done? Other than write off five years of your life with an obsession?

rk: I perceive the "good" you refer to, shall be revealed in this post.

-- m: >ama semper quisquis noces

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail.

10/2/2000

midwinter midwinter@no.mail.please

Raymond Karczewski arkent@internetcds.com wrote

m: > Ray, you are an extraordinary man. I have read through this reply (thank you for taking the trouble TO reply, by the way). Some of your comments have made me laugh, some have caused me considerable alarm - and not for the reason you might well choose to assume.

rk: It should come as no surpise that in the moment of realization, an ignorant intellect will either be reduced to laughter or tears, with rationalization running a close third.

m: > I genuinely would like to go through your last post piece by piece and tell you in no uncertain terms what I think about it, but I'm not going to,

rk: That comes as no surprise either. Your style is that of personal attack via attractively packaged sterile wordsmithing. You pride yourself as being too smooth to express anything honestly, so habitual vagueness and ambiguity becomes your schtick. Your style is different from most of the ignoramuses who are unable to grasp the message, leaving them only with the option of attacking the messenger. Your peripheral style is different; however, the spirit remains the same.

m: > because you've demonstrated to me that what's troubling you is far beyond the scope of discussion on this group to deal with.

rk: So why have you chosen to respond as you have? A contradiction in essence, is it not?

m: So I'm not going to interpret your comments as personal attacks, regardless of the fact that you may have intended them as such.

rk: See what I mean about hypocrites? You say above "So I'm not going to interpret your comments as personal attacks, regardless of the fact that you may have intended them as such." In the same sentence you state you will not interpret (judge) another, then, without missing a beat, proceed to do so. Compulsive, uncontrollable display of hypocrisy, is it not?

m: > I think instead they are, for want of a better word, a symptom of something else.

rk: Nah! Just compulsive, uncontrollable hypocrisy observing itself in the Mirror of Truth.

rk: >> Over the past five years have I not demonstrated, beyond debate, the *limitation of thinking*when one is called upon to deal with problems which are "nontechnical" in nature?

m: > No. I'm sorry, but you've demonstrated nothing, if your site and those of your posts I've seen are anything to go by.

rk: > > That simple step away from Truth is the corruption of human consciousness responsible for transforming the nondualistic energy of Peace on Earth to the dualistic energy of Hell on Earth.

m: > I'd ask you to think very carefully about what you consider "Hell on Earth" to be.

rk: Pay attention to how often you use the word "think" instead of "See" in this post. There's a clue there as to why you are blind to the Truth expressed in my posts.

rk: > > Your questions are moot, for they are being asked by a blind intellect which eschews the nondualistic Truth in lieu of satisfying its insatiable appetite for argument and debate over every "jot and tittle." In other words, you can't see the BIG PICTURE because you're so busy being lost in the forest chopping up twigs. Such twig gathering may keep you warm temporarily, but it will never lead you out of the forest of confusion.

m: > So I must not ask questions, or seek answers of my own - I must simply accept yours because they are "Truth"?

rk: That's an assumption, is it not? I have not asked you or anyone else to accept what I express. Truth is always self-evident and requires no proof. Only the intellectual *idea* of Truth requires a thought based structure of sytematic and logical analysis which if all mechanical criteria are met, is then accepted by blind intellects as "Proof." It is neither Proof nor Truth. It is just another theory the intellect entertains.

rk: Truth can only be seen. It cannot be arrived at through thought. One either sees the Truth for themselves, or they do not. Are you beginning to "See" the handicap of using your trained Intellect to grasp that which does not lie within the realm of thought?

m:> And I know they're Truth how?

rk: One cannot "KNOW" Truth, for knowledge and Truth are of vastly different vibratory energies within consciousness.

m: > Because you told me so? You are, in essence, trying to control my mind, Ray, by suppressing my natural instinct to question. Think, Ray...

rk: There's that word "think" again. Stuck in an intellectual rut, aren't you? That's the sure sign of an "Ignoramus," regardless of how slick and cunning he "thinks" he is while operating behind hypocritical rhetoric.

rk: > > One only need look at the (same) words used by us. Then experience whose words, though nicely packaged, are sterile in content (limited) while the words of the other possess extraordinary resonating energy which cannot be stemmed by mere impotent peripheral debate.

m: > You believe your words contain "extraordinary resonating energy".

rk: You seem to "SEE" it also, do you not? You expressed that sentiment in your opening line of this post when you said "Ray, you are an extraordinary man." Either you spoke the Truth, or you attempted to deceive. See what I mean about revealing yourself before the world as you stand before the Mirror of Truth? And there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

m: > Who's trying to stem them? I'm just trying to make head or tail of them.

rk: Is that another admission of your limitation of Intellect? Pay attention to the Mirror of Truth. It is reflecting the real Truth about yourself, not the image you "BELIEVE" yourself to be.

m:> You claim this is because I'm a "conditioned ignoramus" (a claim you make with no idea who you're talking to),

rk: You gotta be kidding. You read like an open book.

m: > whereas I tend to think it's because your words fundamentally make no sense.

rk: Ah! There's that fragmented word "think" again. Are you beginning to SEE your own addiction to Intellectual Blindness?

rk: >>> Let all note that this is your statement, not mine.

m: > >Good Lord - so you really DO believe everyone's in on it?

rk: > > Again, you wish to impose your own judgment on me, yet at the same time, you understand its futility. I do not engage in what ignoramuses would term "belief."

m: > You do not engage in "belief", and yet you "believe" everyone is out to get you, that the government is trying to control our minds through the Internet...

rk: I do not operate from the level of belief. I merely express what is observed in the moment.

m: > You most certainly DO engage in "belief", Ray, because you "believe" that I'm a disinformation agent.

rk: By gosh, by golly, gee whiz, gee willikers, hot damn, I see that you are attempting to troll me into letting you off the hook for your statements. Be responsible in word and action and there is no need for such devious artifice.

m: This is belief rather than knowledge because you cannot support such a claim. And I know full well you cannot support such a claim because the claim is false. You fall into the trap of trying to mould those with whom you interact to fulfil the requirements for your own personal fantasy.

rk: Your assumption is duly noted.

rk: > > Can you see (I am sure others have) how you have architected that zinger, "thinking" your skillful *packaging* of it would protect your from being discovered. Who better personify the ultimate of hypocrisy than those skilled in the Satanically-ruled realm of DIPLOMACY?

m: > Diplomacy is bad? You would rather I point out, all diplomacy aside, that I believe on the basis of the evidence of your posts that you are utterly and completely barking mad?

rk: You see, the key word in your assumption above is "believe." Belief has always been the "LAZY MIND'S SUBSTITUTE FOR TRUTH! In its limitation, Intellect can be a "god" in its own right. Was that not the promise made for the selling of one's soul?

m: . Would that be more "holy" of me, Ray?

rk: "Holy?" You haven't a clue of "Holy" Only posturing hypocrites and ignoramuses spout words they have no understanding of.

m: I make no attempt to avoid "discovery", Ray - I mean what I say. And if you would rather I did not hide behind niceties or politeness, then I am perfectly happy to oblige.

rk: Be my guest, but WATCH OUT FOR THAT MIRROR!!!

rk: > > Without, of course, providing the readers with the links to previous posts under different names. Quite circuitous, is it not? But then, not at all unexpected behavior for a disinformation agent, wouldn't you say?

m: > Of course I don't provide links to previous posts on different groups. Why would I do that? What relevance have my posts in other names on other groups than this one?

rk: All this psuedo-indignation can be set aside if you would post your true name and email address to back up your words. Do that, and you would find an instant change in how you express yourself, would you not? It's called RESPONSIBILITY.

m: > If you feel that this invalidates comments that I make here, then that is up to you, of course, and the same goes for everyone else. Each must make his or her own judgement on such things.

rk: See what I mean about a slick, smooth-talking, attractively packaged, cowardly hypocrite?

m: > >Now, to the key point - because I disagree with you, you genuinely believe therefore that I am one of your conspirators,your disinformation agents...I am out to control your mind through my cunning wiles, yes?

rk: You're doing the talking!

rk: > > I suggest you'll play Hell trying to control my mind! I am merely mirroring the activities of government/media sponsored/supported mind controllers upon the unaware who are still subject to such insidious control techniques.

m: > My point exactly. You DO believe that I'm trying to control your mind. You ARE paranoid, Ray. I'm not out to get you, Ray, but your delusion makes you believe that I am. This should worry you.

rk: Then why am I not worried? What's wrong with your assertion? You see, you are talking about what is being reflected back to you as you stand before the Mirror of Truth.

m: >> What is my modus operandi, Ray?

rk: > > You are displaying it in this post. However, the spiritually blind will never be able to see it, will they? They, like you, require feedback (poll taking?) to see how their deceptions are being received. They have lost the ability to live atone with Truth -- which requires no reinforcement of numbers.

m: > So another attribute of those truly in touch with the Truth is that they accept no criticism, they accept no views other than those they build for themselves, and their minds are completely closed to change, correct?

rk: There you go again with the leading questions seeking to entrap another so that your "jot and tittle" consciousness may allow you to twist even the most insignificant detail into a deceptive scenario. You're not a lawyer, are you?

m: > "The spiritually blind require feedback"? I respect feedback, and I accept criticism, and I ask for information - if that makes me spiritually blind, then so be it

rk: By all mean, "So Be It!"

m: > - I would rather spiritual blindness than the inflexibility and futility of being in touch with the Truth.

rk: You said it, I didn't!! See how easily the Truth comes out when you stand too long before the Mirror of Truth? What's more, there's not a damn thing you can do about it, is there?

rk: > > I have no such desires, for I do not engage in debate. It is you and other ignoramuses who seek to enveigle others into such destructive behavior.

m: > Debate is "destructive behaviour"? I pity you, Ray, if you really believe this. I pity you for all the things you will never learn, the insights you will never share, the ideas you will never experience. I pity you for the tiny, rigid and pre-defined world in which you have imprisoned yourself.

rk: If you pay close attention, you will hear the lament of a prideful intellect in defense of its own BASSACKWARDNESS.

rk: > > Let's face it, "midwinter," you are incapable of understanding one such as I who resonates at a level of consciousness beyond your ken.

m: > Oh, for crying out loud, Ray. Have you any idea how downright idiotic this sounds? "You are incapable of understanding one such as I who resonates at a level of consciousness beyond your ken"? How incredibly arrogant of you.

rk: Did you not just express your own feeling of ignorance when you elevated another above you so that you may feel inferior? Then sought to work off your resentment by labeling the other as arrogant? If you didn't catch it, read it again. I am sure many others who identify with your level of consciousness got a little insight into their own consciousness through your words. Hell, isn't it?

rk: > >> When did our federal government ever have a hard timeexplaining to the American taxpayer just how they were able to fritter away millions of dollars? Are we living in the same country?

m: > >No, we're not - you're in the United States and I'm in the UK.

rk: Are you attempting to make the case to all who read your post that you could not be a government intelligence agent or a reporting journalist for the media on foreign assignment?

m: > Nope. I'm just answering your question. You asked if we live in the same country, I'm saying no. Do you really want to try to read anything more into it than that? Because anything else you put in there is yours alone.

m: > >Okay, I'll explain. You, Ray, deride the integrity of the Usenet forum.

rk: > > I have not derided anything. I have pointed out the obvious, which is *hidden in plain sight,* although invisible to the vibratory level of blind, word-bound ignoramuses.

m: > Oh come on, Ray. You announce that Usenet is "not the venue for proof", you suggest that each and every poster here is either a disinformation agent or possibly all the same disinformation agent - and you're NOT questioning the integrity of Usenet?

rk: "...EACH and EVERY" poster here a disinformation agent or the same disinformation agent? Again, your words, not mine. Do you see how you seek to put words into another's mouth, then hold them responsible for your words. That is a favorite ploy used by the AFAB BULLY/SKEPTICULTIST/ROYBOT Disinformation Agents on these newsgroups/forums. Do you understand the essence of "If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, IT MUST BE A D----!?

rk: > > I have said it many times before, but apparently it bears repeating. These Internet Newsgroup/Forums are the last Bastion of Freedom, not yet under the direct control of the few who own the prevailing means to control the public dissemination of information.

m: > And this is despite the fact that we're all in on the conspiracy? After all, you can tell the ones who are on the government payroll - they're the ones who disagree with you or who don't believe you, which as far as I can see so far is more or less everyone who's replied to a post of yours. You can certainly tell I'M a government agent because I've used more than one name - but as well as being a government agent I'm also a subject, being a "conditioned ignoramus". And THESE are the denizens of the "last Bastion of Freedom"? It'd be funny, Ray, if it weren't so depressing.

rk: Like I said earlier in this post, your type is either laughing or crying.

m: > > The point you're trying to make is so irrational that the comments themselves can't be effectively addressed.

rk: > > Beyond your comprehension, eh? Have you grasped that simple truth yet?

m:> Absolutely. How can I possibly comprehend you?

rk: Is that "Absolutely" an utterance which passes for an admission of *Intellectual limitation* by you?

rk: >> "Bicker"? Who is bickering here? Your gaze is affixed to that mirror again, is it not? Do you not note the energy of frustration expressed in your comments? Hell, isn't it?

m: > Again you speak of Hell... Bless you - I hope you never truly experience it, Ray. As for frustration, of course I'm frustrated - because I see in your writing the mark of intelligence and a good personality.

rk: Yet your limited perspective allows you to only grasp the peripheral, does it not? Have you come to understand yourself a little better as a result of this exchange?

m: > And yet what good is that when you are so deeply trapped in a closed-mindedness of your own making?

rk: Meditate on this word, if you will--BASSACKWARDS! Then apply it to your comments in this post. You will see the Truth of the interchange for yourself.

rk: > > YES! Hell, you already admitted to posting under different names, different aliases. Why not post with integrity and issue your true identity to back up your words? Too much to ask of a hypocrite, eh?

m: > What is a "true identity", Ray?

rk: For a start, why not begin by backing up your words with your true name? That might bring you a little closer to *integrity.* Coming face to face with such an unsettling energy to your present state of consciousness, you may well come to understand what "true identity" is.

m: > Walk a mile in my shoes and then answer that question.

rk: Walk in your shoes? You gotta be kidding!! That would be tantamount to trudging through the depths of BASSACKWARDS!

rk: By the way, below is your post under the alias "Move On Already Man unknown" which appears on the Town Square forum.

rk: Was that a demonstration of different forum, different name? That certainly does not bode well for one who is attempting to make a case for integrity, does it?

-- ama semper quisquis noces

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

midwinter

Don't Waste Your Life Ray

Re: Re: More Evidence Why There May Be NO Hope (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 21:17:06 GMT

From: Move On Already Man unknown

main body snipped : Readers can access the full article at http://www.oregonlive.com/forums/townsquare/archive.ssf/townsquare594.html Post #17309.4

-- ama semper quisquis noces

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

midwinter

Remove the 1 1/2 year-long White House, Congressional, and FBI STONE WALL of Silence erected over this issue of utmost importance. Before you vote, make sure you get a specific answer to it from ALL of the Presidential Candidates on the Campaign Trail. --

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