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Spirituality And Religion: Apples and Oranges

Sunday, 11-Jun-2000 05:00:01

208.26.131.2 writes:

Raymond Karczewski wrote:

Sorry J,

I read your comments. In terms of words, the perceived energies of the words which serve us as a bridge to communication can be considered as that of Apples and Oranges!

When one is hungry, one may eat indiscriminately until his appetite is satiated. It is when one has his fill of such frantic, indiscriminate, counterproductive, peripheral activity that the need to continue in that vein is put behind and one can then invite the resonance of the unmistakable nondualistic essence of LOVE to enter one's Consciousness. It is a realm quite beyond words. It is the Spiritual Rebirth process.

It is quite apparent by your words that you are guided by belief. I am guided by the simple, direct perception of Truth. Truth does not argue--it mirrors the "What IS." As IT does so, It lets the spectre of the dualistic devil take the hindmost.

What you have said in this communication is *true* as far as it goes, but it is not *TRUTH*. It is the partial truth of blind believers who are guided and directed in their present darkness via roadmaps made by other blind men who have groped their way through their own confused life and thus assume it qualifies them as leaders. It is the roadmap that leads to the "ditch of despair" that awaits all who are blind, but pretend that they can see.

When you understand what I mean by that, you will understand what I am doing on the Internet.

j: >> TOO MUCH RANTING!

rk: I suggest you pay close attention to who is preemptively attacking and who is doing the reflecting. To determine the nondualistic Truth which brings clarity of perception, one must look to the origins of the momentum, not the middle, for there all one will find is the dualistic machinations of intrigue, confusion, and deception.

rk: The flaw of communication rests in the fragmented use of the peripheral, sterile "letter-of-the-word" sans the telepathic essence which would make such partial communion "whole."

rk: Love is the energy of Wholeness. Debate is the divisive energy of conflict and confusion worshipped by blind ignoramuses. Look to the initiators of these attacks. See that it is they who scream the loudest at what they see reflected back to them as they gaze into the undistorted mirror of Truth.

rk: There is a simple test for you. Just observe quietly, see for yourself, without requiring another to tell you what you are observing. Let the quietness of consciousness bring your attention to the realm beyond noisy words.

rk: Look. Don't think! Then ask yourself the question: Does Ray Karczewski initiate these attacks, or does he merely mirror them?

rk: J., I am removing your identity from this communication and posting it on the newsgroups.

j: >Dear Ray:

j: >You are taking criticism too personally. And venting your spleen publically is counter productive. Our job is to EDUCATE - not repeat, ad nauseum, that the opponent is bad, lying, foul, etc. Each time you get defensive, you turn off readers, and bring much glee to those who bait you. When I first started posting to this group years ago, it was very diverse and lively. Now it's the "RK" show. Keep your personal replies personal, and stop wasting bandwidth.

j: >It's hard, but I had to learn that lesson when I wrote my first book (seven drafts later ;-). A critic from the writing department told me bluntly that "ranting" is boring. Boring. Boring. Write with love, compassion and pity for your readers,friend and foe.

J: > If anyone has a reason to be "irate" it's me. I've been harassed, knocked off the air, censored, arrested, shipped all over the country, released, harassed, etc. But our religious teachings promote forgiveness and forebearance. Re-read the parable of the Prodigal Son, and ask: Did the father forgive his wayward son? No.

j: >The father never condemned him, so there was no reason to forgive. Actually, it was the brother who was offended. See? Imitate the father and don't take offense. Then there is no reason for you to "win" the argument. If the idea is good, it'll bear fruit. Evil withers on its own.

j:>Remember, love your enemy.

Re: Neo Tech Land, or the Pipe Dream of the Hell-bound?

Saturday, 10-Jun-2000 19:21:16

208.26.131.35 writes:

Posted By: Matt Ross

Raymond Karczewski Wrote:

mr: Is there a Neo Tech country in existence? Does anyone out there know of a civilization that is free from government corruption, taxes, religious brainwashing, and mysticism? A country that has already banished Neo cheaters and hell bent preachers?

rk: Ah! The positive imaged dreams of the conditioned "hell-bound" expressed in no uncertain terms. Why not just play the cards you were dealt in this lifetime instead of dreaming OF a better hand that "Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda" been dealt you?

rk: That's the real test of integrity, is it not?

rk: You want a different world?

rk: Change yourself at the very core of your own being. Do that instead of trying to change others through petty psychological identification with membership in dualistic, thought-based, organized political and religious movements.

rk: It is through such mind controlled, organized fellowship of conditioned blind believers whose personal daily miserable lives are locked in the hypnosis of positive imagery that has been the clearly discernable *divide and conquer* momentum which has destroyed civilization after civilization. It is all done through leadership's careful manipulation of the masses through their ignorant and codependant-based consent. It is this psychological dependence that has allowed the "blind to lead the blind" to certain destruction.

rk: With that deep, fundamental change within yourself through your own personal understanding, step out into the world of corruption and intrigue as an integral being and just LIVE.

rk: You cannot help but mirror the world around you--as it is. That alone will shock our sleeping brothers and sisters awake from their "Politically Correct" hypnotic suggestible slumber.

rk: That power of Truth, lived by an integral individual, is sufficient to raise the "Living Dead!"

rk: We are all "Christs with Amnesia." Some of us have regained the memory of our True Estate. Many others are still "lost souls" stumbling about blindly in the dark world they have created out of their ignorance.

rk: Have you not heard the one about "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

rk: Wake up from your hypnotic slumber. Deal with life as it is, but do it in the spirit of nondualism. The holistic (holy) Spirit of Divine Intelligence.

rk: Step out of the realm of dualism. From this moment forward, Do not lie, cheat, steal, or preemptively/intentionally harm another.

rk: Be Still! Be Integral! BE!!!

rk: Then look again at the world with your newly reinstated spiritual eyes and express to the world what you see.

rk: That's the simplicity of a New Consciousness which await the intelligent "meek" who shall inherit the Earth.

Ray Karczewski

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The Spiritual Iconoclast

Wednesday, 31-May-2000 12:44:19

208.26.131.194 writes:

The Ultimate Iconoclast is Truth Itself.

It is the destroyer of all false particular images which navigate in a world of hypocrisy while hiding behind multiple masks of deception.

In this world of illusion based in man's dualistic thought, the game of intrigue and power is played. The rules of the game are carefully set out, and all who wish to play the game of life are expected to follow them.

Though there are many levels of hypocrisy in the game of life, it is really a simple matter of survival.

It is the illusory quality of life that separates the winners from the losers; for all, in fact, are losers, as they have lost sight of the true immensity of life that lies beyond their petty game.

In the game of power, the consistent winners set themselves up as the rule makers and skillful rule evaders.

The consistent losers, who have been trained to believe and adhere to the rules, soon become diminished through the endless strife and stress of abiding by the rules the rulemakers ignore at will.

The losers learn early on of their disadvantage in the game which posits unequal footing for its participants.

What is won and lost in this game are the souls of men.

The losers give up their energy to the winners.

The scorecard is the accumulation of energy via the redistribution of the loser's energy which is transferred to the winners.

Everyone fudges with the rules, winners and losers alike. But the winners are better at the art of deception, and so they gain power through their finely honed art of hypocrisy and deception.

No image of the mind can stand up to the light of Truth.

When the faulty, fragmented image projected by the dualistic ego has been exposed by the mirror of Truth through its *untainted* reflection being returned to sender, the fantasy-bound imagemaker, which is one's ego, based in the conflicted energies of dualism, begins to disintegrate.

Thus begins the death of the judgmental intellect. It is at the death of the ego, the point of complete disintegration of the artificial intelligence that is the intellect, that understanding emerges in one's heretofore cluttered dualistic consciousness.

Such is the nondualistic mechanism of Divinely guided Intelligence. It is called by many names -- Spiritual Rebirth, Resurrection of the Spirit, Atonement, Love, Truth, Understanding . . . .

Ray Karczewski

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The Spiritual Iconoclast

Monday, 05-Jun-2000 18:58:58

208.26.131.156 writes:

"JJ" wrote:

jj: Ray an eloquent dissection of the state of man presently in this world. The word truth means God. The word true means that which is correct. The word dualistic has a number of meanings, which leaves the reader to interpret which you meant.

jj: Despite this, and any written word may not be interpreted as desired, your message is clear. If we were true or saw the truth (and I,m not sure they are the same thing) we would be very different. All animosity and mistruth would vanish leaving a world devoid of conflict. The dimensions of *THE* idea are small: truth. The dimensions of implementation are huge:conversion.

jj: Thus far our track record is poor. Maybe one *day* it will become.

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The Spiritual Iconoclast

On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 16:36:30 -0700, David Vorous wrote:

JJ wrote:

jj: >> Ray an eloquent dissection of the state of man presently in this world. The word truth means God.

dv: >The word 'truth' means; the quality of being true, or something that is true. Since this god doesn't exist, it cannot have either of those qualities.

rk: Truth means something true eh? Is that your manner of clarifying ambiguity through definition? You then follow it up with a conditioned speculative athiestic belief. Through such terse, empty rhetoric designed to promulgate endless, go nowhere circular debate with another, david, you have just displayed to the world, the true level of your present intellect, have you not?

jj: >> The word true means that which is correct.

dv: >That god isn't correct in many areas either.

jj: >> The word dualistic has a number of meanings, which leaves the reader to interpret which you meant. Despite this, and any written word may not be interpreted as desired, your message is clear. If we were true or saw the truth (and I,m not sure they are the same thing) we would be very different. All animosity and mistruth would vanish leaving a world devoid of conflict.

dv: >That's right! Get rid of all the religions that claim to have, or be, the truth, and you will have that world devoid of conflict.

rk: david, there is a time and a place for spiritual Kindergarten. Time-bound religions provide that for spiritual children. However, liberated, spiritual beings grow up. They understand that one must ultimately put away the things of childhood when time is understood, transcended, and one in dialogue with others, sows the seed of Truth.

dv: > Just think, no one will be acting like little kids and saying; "My god can beat up your god." And with all the religions gone, we'll have a more moral world as no one will be using the excuse of; "My god told me to kill you," anymore. Imagine.......

rk: Imagine, indeed!

David J. Vorous

dave@snakebite.com

http://www.thellamaranch.com

dv: >I don't get headaches. I give'm!.

rk: When one enters into Spiritual (Post Grad) dialogue, one ought leave one's Kindergarten patter of belief behind--where it belongs!

rk: David, reread your post. You'll see what I mean.

rk: Come back when you have grown sufficiently and have put away the things of spiritual childhood. Perhaps then your words may resonate with substance.

Ray Karczewski

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The Christ and the Ignoramus

Saturday, 06-May-2000 17:01:44

208.26.131.29 writes:

Christ Consciousness is the True Estate of Human Beings.

Human Beings!!!

Meditate on that for a moment. Do it NOW! Savor its Essence. Its Spirit.

Hu is the age old oriental word for God -- the Infinite, the Unbounded, Creative Intelligence that is Truth, that is Life.

Man is the material space suit which allows the finer vibration of Infinite Intelligence to manifest itself on this gross vibratory plane of existence.

The combination of the two, Infinite Intelligence housed in the animal (space suit) body of man, is what is ordinarily labeled a "Hu-Man Being."

However, the label "Human Beings," as generally used by civilized man, is a misnomer.

Human Beings are Christs without Amnesia. They are multidimensional in consciousness, unlike their corrupted, conditioned automaton brothers and sisters who have chosen to live life through the filter of a linear, dualistic, Hellish dimension of Intellect.

Civilized men, conditioned out of their natural state of Intelligence, are Christs with Amnesia; and therefore relegated to the enslaved state of being mere outer-directed, mind controlled automatons.

Both Christs and automatons appear as man. The difference is that the former is the master of his intellect while the latter is a slave to it.

The Christ is atone with HU. The ignoramus is separated from HU. He can only think about his own illusions of HU inculcated into his consciousness through Cultural Conditioning.

Therein lies the answer that has eluded spiritual seeking ignoramuses since their "Fall from Grace."

Prior to Man's Fall from Grace as depicted in the Judeo-Christian myth of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, ALL MEN (including WOMEN) were Christs. In other words, they were complete "human beings" not as yet corrupted by Intellect.

They lived in understanding, at peace with all of creation. It was "Paradise." They gave that up in return for the seduction of Intellect, which, when acted upon, thrust them into the time-bound dimension of temporal existence and dualistic struggle.

Who was the original mind controller? Each of you already "know" the answer to that question, don't you? If you don't, it just points to your present level of ignorance.

Many on the net are upset when their "seeking," dissatisfied, struggling, linear, dualistic consciousness compels them to deal with a multidimensional Christ. Their imprisoning, time-bound, linear Intellect cannot fathom that which lies beyond its ken. All it knows is struggle and power. A Christ has no need for Power, and so does not struggle after it, does not resist or support such evil, and so does not lend it his essence. He/She only mirrors the What IS!

Ignoramuses operating on the gross level of perception can only "sense" the difference between themselves and the subtle energies of a Christ, for they have lost their "spiritual sight." Their dualistic, conditioned perceptions which separate them from a nondualistic Christ are made clear to them via the unmistakable pain of Truth. Such are the lessons learned when ignoramuses stand too long before a Mirror of Truth. Power-seekers bound to the limitation of intellect are always pained when met with and mirrored by the unlimited.

In their ignorance such blind ignoramuses compensate for their previously abdicated multidimensional state of Consciousness by taking great pride in worshipping their own self-created, limited, linear-ruled world; i.e., the corrupted world of man's law. They have separated themselves from the rest of creation and pridefully declare dominion over all. Quite a recipe for self-annihilation, is it not?

A simple man, a Christ walks amongst them. One who is not linear in consciousness though he uses the linear energy of Intellect to communicate. The ignoramuses perceive the difference in energy immediately. They shout, they demean, they attack. They say, "come down to our level -- be like us so we may understand you. Answer our questions so we may decide for ourselves whether you are who you say you are. Tell us in linear terms what can only be perceived nonlinearly." Does anybody see the impossibility of capturing the ocean in a thimble?

Despite the fact that in every communication the answers to all of the questions are there, they're just not perceived by those who are blind to Truth. Such Truth can only be grasped by direct perception, not time-bound, sequential thought formulas. Feeling their impotence, their ignorance throws them into a seething rage. They are seeing themselves as they are. not as what they think they are. Their psychological rationalizations and denials cannot protect them from such simple nondualistic Truth. They experience the Hell raging within their own intellect.

Ignoramuses throughout the ages have heard the solution to their problems. It has been offered many, many times by the Christs of their times. Yet ignoramuses remain what they are, do they not? With their equally blind, ignorant leadership, they become further ensconced in a spirit destroying relationship of codependence. Did not one Christ characterize it as the "blind leading the blind?" That particular Christ was crucified for such a simple revelation.

Here is the simple Truth of Spiritual Liberation. ONE MORE TIME. Just listen, then do with it what you will.

ONE MUST DIE TO THE DUALISTIC INTELLECT IN ALL MATTERS NONTECHNICAL TO BE REBORN OF THE NONDUALISTIC SPIRIT OF INFINITE INTELLIGENCE !

Understand that simple fact, and mankind shall experience A NEW CONSCIOUSNESS on this earth.

Ray Karczewski

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The Somnambulists, the Awakening, and the Awake (Was: Dead Men's Bones Within a Whited Sepulchre)

Friday, 28-Apr-2000 14:30:11

208.26.131.15 writes:

Raymond Karczewski wrote:

radams@cerritos.edu (Roger Adams) wrote:

ra: >First of all, Jesus did not write letters. Secondly, Jesus says to all of us (Matt 7:3): And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

rk: For understanding to occur between two or more individuals, there must be the merging of the same vibration of energy meeting each other at the same point and time, resulting in the dissolution of psychological barriers, allowing for indissoluble atonement to occur. Roger, the point of misdirection contained in the present article thread occurred from the very get-go, as the vibrational energy of my statement was met by quite a different vibrational response on your part. In other words, we did not communicate with each other. I was not understood. Your apparent misunderstanding was evident by your statement that Jesus did not write letters. That is neither what I said nor meant. You later acknowledged that you understood my meaning, but your written response above does not reflect that. That, Roger, is a case of misdirection. You followed it with an oft-repeated quote about cleaning up one's own act before one takes it upon oneself to note the act of a brother or sister. I understand and agree with that statement. That is exactly what I am doing on the net to the apparent consternation of many.

ra: > You apparently feel that you are in a position to give unsolicited advice to others. Moreover, you base such advice on mostly inaccurate assessments of those to whom you are giving the advice to.

rk: If I were coming from the intellectual realm of knowledge, your use of the word assessment, be it accurate or inaccurate, would be a proper one. I understand that the intellectual level is the base from which you perceive your world. It is the world of ideation, of belief, of conceptual constructs. I also understand that it is within the intellectual realm of knowledge that you aspire to touch the hem of Truth.

rk: The state of "being" and the state of "becoming" are vastly different vibratory realms within a universal consciousness. Beingness is of the nondualistic realm, while aspiring through the medium of intellectual "becoming" is clearly within the dualistic realm of conditioned ideas. You are a spiritual aspirant, therefore your life is guided by the ideas and beliefs you hold to be sacred. Your posts reveal the energy of knowledge which is found in the realm of "becoming," as opposed to the experiential realm of "being." In the state of beingness, direct perception untainted by judgment is the evidence of supreme intelligence operating in life. At this level, understanding dissolves the conflicts of duality by its mere focus of attention. It is clear to me that you are a serious seeker, but, as such, you are still operating at the dualistic level of belief.

rk: One based in truth operates at the primary level of direct perception, secondarily at the level of thought. Thought is absolutely necessary and finds its proper place in the resolution of technical problems. However, it is extremely destructive when its dualistic nature bleeds over into the psychological realm of intellectual consciousness and beyond. That is man's self-made hell, built and fortified by the generated friction of opposition as the illusion of dualism garners a preponderance of energy within one's consciousness. It is when thought is held to be primary in one's life, that one finds he is living a life of bassackwards. In matters technical, a "mind is indeed a terrible thing to waste." In matters psychological, "a mind is a terrible thing to have." if one has no spiritual grounding (balance).

rk: The problem which all spiritual pilgrims soon come to realize in their trek when operating out of the intellect is that "One cannot get there from here." In other words, one cannot "achieve" spirituality in an actual sense. Lacking that insight, blind believers search frantically hither, thither, and yon to fulfill an emptiness within their being. Already conditioned to live in their thoughts, they compensate for their unwholeness by their strivings to achieve the "idea" of Spirituality. There's the rub. Belief is the illusion of truth. It is a different realm altogether. Since the earliest of societies, millions, nay billions, have fallen for the illusion. The thought is never the thing it represents, yet believers worship thought, do they not?

rk: Truth is the ONE GOD. The "idea" of truth is characterized as the false gods of the Bible, the many graven images that man has come to worship. Those who worship these false gods are the "Talkabouts." They talk endlessly, repeating, repeating, repeating their conditioned thoughts, creating structures of power which soon reduce the blind worshippers into willing slaves, serving the custodians of the "sacred" thought. This is the revered priesthood who claim to be conduits for that supreme thought they worship as God.

rk: I do not use thought in the usual manner except when I am faced with technical problems. In the psychological realm, the mind is quiet and attuned to vibration rather than images. When expression is necessary, words are formed by the spirit of direct perception via the holistic (holy) spirit of intelligence. This state is the "Christ State". However, it is not the same as the "idea of Christ" as has been inculcated into millions of conditionable minds.

rk: >> Roger, I once regarded you as a spiritual brother.

ra: > For me, regarding another as a spiritual brother is unconditional. Nothing you can do or say will change my regard for you as my spiritual brother because it is not based on merit or whether I like your posts or not but on the non-dualistic truth that we are spiritually inseparable.

rk: Roger, what you have expressed is a fine idea, and you will get plenty of support for it. However, it is, at this stage, a mere striving of yours, not an actuality. Roger, you and many others regard "unconditional" in its ideational form, not its experiential form. You may have had momentary glimpses into the state of unconditional love, but your energy speaks of the "theory" of unconditional love. When no understanding is present, all that is left is to make up theories backed by circular arguments leading nowhere. It is in a "moment of truth," where the illusion is reflected in the mirror of truth, that liberation from habit is at hand. Unfortunately, habit has a strong hold upon a conditioned conscious and, through stress, will generally follow the path of least resistance as it returns to its mechanical routine.

rk: The antidote to all of this nonsense is complete integrity in the expression of one's words and actions. In other words, "If you don't live it, don't say it." It is the failure to follow this simple point of truth which has caused man's life to disintegrate and has created an individual and collective hellish world of suffering. Those are the "rewards" one reaps by living a life of hypocrisy.

rk: The greatest sin of man was to forsake the infinite for the finite consciousness of thought. That was and is man's "Fall From Grace." When the word, the label, has taken on greater importance than that unknown energy it attempts to describe, one steps through the looking glass of duality, where all is topsy-turvy and one soon becomes disoriented and confused, leading to a loss of spiritual equilibrium. That is the world I term bassackwards in my writing.

rk: People who are talented with words gain a certain power in this world structured in thought. This talent gains them position and status in their hell-bound world of conflicting opposites. They speak from knowledge, but they lack understanding. All who live in thought are dishonest hypocrites--bar none; for hypocrisy is none other than duality in operation. A hypocrite is a liar, a deceiver. Duality is his domain. A simple man of Truth, an integral man, is not a subject of the same domain as the hypocrite, for his energy is nondualistic. He, therefore, is not bound to conventions of duality. He is a free man vibrating with the wholeness of Truth, of Love. He is the man who may be "In" this world, but he is certainly not "of It." He will always be an unwelcome outsider, as he is considered a threat to the "insiders" of Hell. How that comes to be is the very nature of the world of Bassackwards.

rk: His function is just to "be" in a world of "becoming." His beingness acts as a spotless mirror by which finite vibrations may be reflected. His life is choiceless. He is there not to teach, not to lead, but to reflect. Such a man acts as a catalyst which draws out and mirrors the hidden conflict of a world based in hypocrisy. The blind are disturbed when he reflects their "voluntary" blindness to them. He awakens them, if only for a moment, even though it may be against their will. In the world of bassackward, the cry of the damned is "How cruel of you to awaken me to my pain when all I wish to do is evade it with deeper sleep."

rk: It is true, Roger, that all are brothers and sisters. Most are asleep, some are awakening, few are awake. It is the rescue of slumbering brothers and sisters from their nightmarish hell that is an awakened man's reason for being. That is the only Christ(s) you will ever meet in this lifetime. Unfortunately, with present day conditioning, they would be damn near impossible for blind believers to recognize. You can see what they did to Jesus in His time. What makes you think it would be any different today?

Ray Karczewski

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Dismantling FALSE Christianity

Wednesday, 12-Apr-2000 16:06:22

208.26.131.45 writes:

Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000

From: THe CRuMPLe ZoNe

Raymond Karczewski wrote:

cz: I agree whole heartedly with you folks who see so much hypocrisy with Christians on this forum.

cz: If we watch how people behave who are such (there is nothing wrong with *discerning* someone, it's not at all like judging someone), you will notice one very common trait among them. False Christians always exhibit a tremendous amount of control over other people.

cz: Ironically, false Christians are very insecure individuals with very low self-esteem. Although they would seem to have their act very neatly packaged, inside they are very confused and frustrated. Nothing wrong with this (we all have some of this) except for the way they find relief for this condition. They find relief by playing God. They feel that the remedy for their bad feelings about their sinful condition is in making choices for other people... other weak-minded people who have a weakness. This is how these false Christians can quench their high egotistical mind-set.

cz: You see, it is all based on a false sense of security. They find a religion such as Christianity as a tool in their continual pursuit of control. They can't control their own foolish choices of sinful desires, so they try and control the choices of other people. This is the pattern that you will see in almost all false Christians on this forum.

THe ZoNe

rk: A "Christian" is a counterfeit human being, a hypocrite. How so? Is not a "Christian" (true or false) merely an "aftermoment-based" religion-indoctrinated, confused, fearful, and emotionally unstable emulator caught in the schism of his own dualistic thought processes which may be traced directly to his/her worship of dead thought?

rk: In worshipping such dead thought a "Christian" violates the very First Commandment of the Ten Commandments they believe were given to Moses by their God who said: "I AM The Lord Thy God (Holistic Truth), Thou Shalt have no Other Gods Before Me." "Thou shalt not make thee any graven image." (dualistic thoughts) "Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them nor serve them."

rk: Interesting, is it not?

rk: Such a conditioned Christian forfeits his/her soul/True Estate as a Child of God by worshipping a Satanically-driven aftermoment (dead), dualism-based Intellect. Such is the nature of man's "Fall from Grace." Such was the beginning of Hell on Earth for mankind, was it not?

rk: crumple zone, your own dualistic, judgmental characterization, creating the schisms of "true" or "false" Christians, establish the parameters of a Satanically-ruled, dualistic realm of Hell, do they not? Is that not the very nature of the world we live in, a psychological world structured in Ignorance and occupied by a LEGION of prideful ignoramuses who argue endlessly over dead, letter-of-the-word definitions while the living spirit of the word eludes them?

rk: Why settle for the counterfeit state of being a "Christian" (a follower of an idea labeled Christ) when all men/women are actually Christs with Amnesia?

rk: Isn't it time to shake off your hypnotic slumber, folks?

Ray Karczewski

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Dismantling FALSE Christianity

Tuesday, 02-May-2000 13:05:27

208.26.131.37 writes:

Tim Lamb

Raymond Karczewski wrote:

cz: > >> >: I agree whole heartedly with you folks who see so much hypocrisy with Christians on this forum.

cz: > >> > If we watch how people behave who are such (there is nothing wrong with *discerning* someone, it's not at all like judging someone), you will notice one very common trait among them. False Christians always exhibit a tremendous amount of control over other people.

tl: >>So then they are not Christians.

rk: > They call themselves Christians. They parrot scriptures like Christians. They habitually judge others under the guise of pity (as you so demonstrate in this post). They hypocritically speak of Love while they separate themselves from, exploit and persecute others who hold a different belief. You know the old saying -- If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it can reasonably said to be a d---!!

tl: So now I am a false Christian? Isn't that judgemental? tell me who have i persecuted, where have i not loved? How have I expoited others? And I really think there is no way I have dominated others

rk: Your statement "So now I am a false Christian?" is one of self-judgment, is it not? No other has specifically singled you out, have they? You have judged yourself with the age-old adage, "If the shoe fits, wear it." You picked up the shoe yourself. No one put it on you but you yourself. Are you feeling comfortable or uncomfortable now with your new-found shoe?

cz: >>> > Ironically, false Christians are very insecure individuals with very low self-esteem. Although they would seem to have their act very neatly packaged, inside they are very confused and frustrated. Nothing wrong with this (we all have some of this) except for the way they find relief for this condition. They find relief by playing God. They feel that the remedy for their bad feelings about their sinful condition is in making choices for other people... other weak-minded people who have a weakness. This is how these false Christians can quench their high egotistical mind-set.

tl: > >please note 'true' Christians kind find peace in God and so are not fearful -leading to aggresion/dominance

rk: > Ah! the old true/false Christian conundrum, eh? Step out of the dualistic Leader/Follower mode. BE reborn of the Infinite Spirit of Nondualistic Intelligence. BE at-one with TRUTH. BE a CHRIST. Then tell me, what became of the Christian, the blind follower who believes and worships the intellectual concept labeled Christ?

tl: >>probably went to heaven recognizing he wasn't perfect and so couldn't become Christ! And so followed Him instead. I mean how can you mix red with white and still have white?

rk: Your comments only indicate the matriculation of a Christian mindset from crayons to finger paints.

rk: > Didn't your Lord and Savior, my Spiritual Brother, tell you "except that Ye die (put an end to the dualistic intellect in nontechnical matters) and be reborn of the (nondualistic) Spirit (of Truth,) Ye shall not enter the (infinite, unbounded, nondualistic, multidimensional consciousness) Kingdom of Heaven?

tl: Yes that is true, although actually Being born again in the Spirit, and born again are actually two seperate things.

rk: How so? People all over the world, regardless of their cultural beliefs, are hungry for this spiritual Truth. Do not feed them theories, untested beliefs. Speak to them of your own understanding, not some cockamamie belief drummed into you by your parochial religious conditioning. Speak Truth, not heresay.

tl: You can I think enter Heaven without being baptised in the Spirit, although it is a natural progression, that should be desired.

rk: Thoughts are dime a dozen. Speak to all from the core of your being, not the computer-like programmed intellect. What you think has no bearing on WHAT IS except to divide you from others who are equally ignorant of their true selves.

tl: You keep saying I am dualistic but I don't see how or where, you say it is because I use intellect falsely?

rk: By your words you prove your enslavement to the realm of duality. You do it with thejudgment contained in your word "falsely." True and false are opposite concepts. They are ideas. All ideas are based in the opposing conflict of duality. The word "truth" is not Truth. It is merely a reflection of that unnameable, infinite nondualistic essence.

rk: Truth is always self-evident. It cannot be proved. Ideas can be proved. The "idea" of Truth, which is not Truth, can be proved to intellects which are blinded to the self-evident Truth of WHAT IS. tim, you ought to be getting a glimpse into the essence of the word "BASSACKWARD" right about NOW!

tl: But you give no real evidence that I can grasp.

rk: Those are your words, tim, not mine. You have just admitted your own inability to grasp the living Truth, since your focus is upon the dead concept of truth. I am sure you've heard the one about leading a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink. The problem which plagues you is that you are looking for TRUTH in the wrong place. The dead, aftermoment based intellect can never grasp the living TRUTH. It can only grasp its shadow.

tl: But I cannot tell you in Spirit, because words cannot describe what is felt and sensed in the Spirit So I talk with my mind not my spirit to you, I am flowing in the Spirit, I can prophecy speak in tongues, I can discern things, I see supernatural occurences, even if they are minor. You say all these things but I fail to see where you back them up, we just go around and around. You call me dualistic, you judge me as a fraud, I say you are not Christ.

rk: With your track record of spiritual blindness, compensated for with your rush of face-saving concepts stated above, your inability to see another simply as a CHRIST comes as no surprise.

cz: >>> > You see, it is all based on a false sense of security. They find a religion such as Christianity as a tool in their continual pursuit of control. They can't control their own foolish choices of sinful desires, so they try and control the choices of other people. This is the pattern that you will see in almost all false Christians on this forum.

tl: > >Can you give me some example?

rk: > May I suggest that first you OPEN YOUR EYES! One cannot see through the veil of BLIND BELIEF. Yet ignoramuses are unable to grasp that simple point. Eyes are for seeing. Intellect is for thinking. One will never *see* through the instrument of *blind* intellect.

tl:Yes I know.

rk: Yet your knowledge does not liberate you to see, but merely forges another link in the chains that bind you intellectually to dead beliefs.

cz >>> > THe ZoNe

rk: > >> > A "Christian" is a counterfeit human being, a hypocrite. How so? Is not a "Christian" (true or false) merely an "aftermoment-based" religion-indoctrinated, confused, fearful, and emotionally unstable emulator caught in the schism of his own dualistic thought processes which may be traced directly to his/her worship of dead thought?

tl: >>No, who are you to judge? You just cannot see what Christians see .. Christ!

rk: Show me one who sees Christ, and I will show you one who is not a Christian but a Christ. Ask yourself the simple question: Was Jesus a Christian? One must be in the conditioned, dualisticrelationship of leader and follower to be a Christian. Christianity is merely one of the numerous "exclusive clubs" ignoramuses create for their own fellowship, commiseration, and security. Christs stand alone, do they not?

rk: > Mind controlled, conditioned Christians don't *see,* they *believe.* Were they to see, they would be CHRISTS (no longer suffering from amnesia).

tl: Actually I see Christ in many physical things - in humans, or the affect He has had. Spiritually though I can 'see' Christ, that though does not make me a Christ.

rk: You bandy about words which do not have the ring of nondualistic Truth to them, but are loaded with emotionalism and reverence for inculcated beliefs based in Christian Conditioning. You project these highly charged emotional illusions upon the world you have created for yourself. Hell, isn't it?

tl: I can feel and sense Him, but I am not Him, Same as you can see me but you are not me.

rk: Being trapped on the linear plane of intellectualism while speculating about multidimension consciousness is a sign of ignorance, is it not?

tl: You again are not divine, you may be mad divinely but to say you are part of God is ludicrious.

rk: See my comments above about your track record, tim. You're beating a dead horse with these petty judgements of yours.

rk: > >> > In worshipping such dead thought, a "Christian" violates the very First Commandment of the Ten Commandments they believe were given to Moses by their God who said

rk: > >> > "I AM The Lord Thy God (Holistic Truth), Thou Shalt have No Other Gods Before Me."

tl: > >How? We worship God?

rk: Au Contraire! Christians worship the "IDEA" OF God. Subtle, but a most important difference. Like the difference between eternal life and temporal life as most people live it on this plane of existence. It's the difference between a CHRIST and a Christian.

rk: > >> > "Thou shalt not make thee any graven image." (dualistic thoughts)

rk: > >> > "Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them nor serve them."

rk: > >> > Interesting, is it not?

tl: > >please enlighten me

rk: > It is not for one to give light to another, but to BE a LIGHT (A Mirror of Truth) unto another. The Light that you are asking to be "enlightened" with is for those ready to invite fundamental change to their consciousness by stopping the chattering of the conditioned Intellect, even for just a fleeting moment. In such pristine silence one's eyes are opened to see the "LIGHT." It's called INSIGHT!

tl: How can I convey my point without using Intellect. Actually I do not believe I am that conditioned.

rk: A belief is a conditioning, yet you say you believe that you are not conditioned. What's wrong with that picture, tim?

tl: I think for myself and come to most of my own conclusions, I do not really look up to or try and mimic any other human intectually.

rk: You think that gets you off the hook for being a blind thinker (ignoramus). That merely allows you to jockey for positions of power along with other equally competing blind, thinking ignoramuses. That's merely the play of Hell on this plane of human existence, is it not?

tl: So I am only conditioned by myself and my search for truth.

rk: See above!

tl: You really don't know me at all well, you are just assuming things, which is the best way to allow lies and falacies into your mind.

rk: tim, you read like an open book to the spiritually sighted.

tl: To be honest I believe Intellect can be one of the most restricting things there are. Unless it is flexible and open, which I think mine is.

rk: If you have to compare yourself with others to determine how flexible and open you are, you're already coming from the established venue of judgment in a dualistic Hell.

tl: Though I know I cannot be a Christ because there is only one, and I find it sickening that you think you are.

rk: See what I mean?

rk: > >> > Such a conditioned Christian forfeits his/her soul/True Estate as a Child of God by worshipping a Satanically-driven aftermoment (dead), dualism-based Intellect. Such is the nature of man's "Fall from Grace." Such was the beginning of Hell on Earth for mankind, was it not?

tl: > >You have no concept of Hell, there is good on this planet therefore it cannot be described as Hell

rk: > You claim that another has no concept of Hell, eh? ALL concepts are of the dualistic nature of the Satanically (Opposer) ruled Intellect. GOD, the nondualistic essence of WHAT IS, has no counterpart. It is the I AM THAT I AM -- the essence of all. However, the concept, the idea of GOD, which is termed by blindly believing ignoramuses as GOOD, is merely the opposite of EVIL. Such conflict born of duality is the very nature of HELL, is it not? Christian, your ignorance is showing; but don't fret, you have a LEGION of commiserating lost souls to keep you company, don't you? BASSACKWARDS, ISN'T IT?

tl: I do not believe good is the opposite of evil. I believe good is Godly, and evil is the rest, which is anti-Godly by definition, whether it is coincious of being evil or not is irrelevant.

rk: With your previous denial of being a Christ (with or without amnesia), along with the above wave of judgment, have you not just condemned yourself as anti-godly and evil? Mighty Christian of you, eh, tim? See what I mean about ignorance?

tl: I believe Hell is the permanent detachment from God, so I see your point in a way but I would not describe it as Hell, as Hell is absolute.

rk: So you believe! That's the Hell of it, tim, is it not?

tl: It is the same as describing Heaven as something that is good.

rk: See above!

tl: One cannot be placed in Heaven or Hell on this earth, because there is a combination or good and bad here, so therefore neither can be achieved. Heaven - pure Godly.

rk: Hell, isn't it?

tl: Hell- pure unGodly. I don't see how I am ignorant in this case, I think you suddenly jumped into this conclusion that I am a lost soul, I cannot follow your logic, either you think on a much more advanced level than I do, or you are not logical

rk: The answer to your quandary is found in the limitations of logic itself.

rk: >>> > crumple zone, your own dualistic, judgmental characterization, creating the schisms of "true" or "false" Christians, establish the parameters of a Satanically-ruled, dualistic realm of Hell, do they not? Is that not the very nature of the world we live in; a psychological world structured in Ignorance and occupied by a LEGION of prideful ignoramuses who argue endlessly over dead, letter-of-the-word definitions while the living spirit of the word eludes them?

tl: > >judgement - who is the one calling all Christians hypocrites? You don't actually understand Christianity, you just think you do. How tragic it shall be for you

rk: > Such a petty, trite, pitiful, well worn Christian response, you demonstrate here.

tl: but you don't defend it, just deflect it!

rk: I have nothing to defend. How about you?

tl: I don't see how you understand who I am or what I worship.

rk: Clearly, you DO NOT SEE! Isn't that the issue before us?

rk: > >> > Why settle for the counterfeit state of being a "Christian" (a follower of an idea labeled Christ) when all men/women are actually Christs with Amnesia?

tl: > >That is such a selfish, self-indulged (worship me) attitude,

rk: > Another says ". . . all men/women are actually Christs with Amnesia?" yet you claim such a statement to be "a selfish, self-indulged (worship me) attitude," Now do you understand the meaning of BASSACKWARDS?

tl: no i don't. I think to think one is divine is utterly arrogant and much misguided

rk: You are absolutely correct in the above statement even though it is clear to the spiritually sighted that you are not fully aware of its correctness. To dualistically THINK that one is divine is delusion. To nondualistically UNDERSTAND it is a different matter, is it not?

tl: > > next you will say there is no right or wrong,

rk: > Not beyond the dualistic Intellect, there isn't!!

tl: there is no judgement or justice.

rk: There is just WHAT IS!

rk: > Not beyond the dualistic Intellect, there isn't!! All there is IS WHAT IS and THOU ART THAT!! However, the catch is YOU'VE GOT TO BE IT TO SEE IT!!! That is the self-evident CHRIST state, the state of Infinite Intelligence.

tl: Ok so you have just evaded all justice, if you believe there is no judgement or right and wrong.

rk: Perhaps you can show me and others where justice can be found on this plane of existence? As to right and wrong, that's merely the bottom line fuel and friction which creates the heat that rages eternally as the fires of Hell.

tl: I believe it is a very confused state, I must miss some point in the philosophy? If someone went and killed your wife and if they thought it was for the best, are you saying that is not wrong? Please explain, I do not follow. You seem to cloud all clarity that I find in Christ.

rk: tim, being a Christian, you follow a fairy tail, a myth, a focal point for mind control. To find clarity in that kind of illusion is the very essence of BASSACKWARDS.

tl: Where do you arrive at the conclusion 'YOU'VE GOT TO BE IT TO SEE IT!!!' please explain, I do not understand it. I don't think it is possible.

rk: With your prideful defense of your ignorance by stating "I don't think it is possible" have you not closed your eyes to the Truth and have dualistically chosen to fly blind via the automatic pilot of Intellect?

tl: > Don't you see it is just a philosophy created so humans can worship themselves instead of God, and then they think they can avoid judgement. And you seem so caught up in your deception that you cannot escape.

rk: > You and I use the same words, tim, but even a blind man CAN FEEL THE DIFFERENCE IN THEIR RESONANCE, EH?

tl: Yup, and I think it's your words that are hollow and repeatitive. As I imagine you do mine. I am trying to understand you, but you seem to leap to conclusions that I do not follow.

rk: You said a mouthful there, tim. Now all that remains for you is to understand what it is.

rk: > >> > Isn't it time to shake off your hypnotic slumber, folks?

tl: > >Well guess you better stand in that mirror, my friend

rk: > I AM the mirror.

tl: Well I believe that would be Jesus. Whom I believe you are not on the same level as.

rk: Ah! There's that conditioned comparison again. Are you seeing the dualistic level of consciousness from which you view life?

tl: If you were Christ then yes you would be the mirror, the judge, the standard, you would do no wrong (even though there would be wrong). The thing is I have seen glimpses of Jesus Christ, I have read His words and understand them to a degree, and your words and actions are not His nor equivilant to His.

rk: There's that dualistic comparison again. Habit???

tl: I cannot explain it well, because I feel it holistically.

rk: At this point, I must tell you that you haven't a clue as to the essence of "holistcally." You've got the defined *letter of the word,* but that's about all you've got. You see, tim, it's all in the telepathic spirit which is missing from your vibration of communication. You can't fake it!

tl: That is why I do not believe you or your arguments.

rk: See my comments above regarding your beliefs of my comments.

tl: I know Christ I sense Him in my Spirit, I feel Him. His love, who He is, and nothing compares to Him, I cannot prove it, but then I cannot prove anything.

rk: What you "know" about CHRIST, tim lamb, can be summed up in two words -- "DIDDLEY SQUAT!" One cannot "know" CHRIST, one can only "know" the idea of CHRIST. And that has been conditioned into you, whether you admit it or not!

tl: You are not Him, that I know.

rk: See Above!!

tl: If I was wrong, then so be it (I have made my choice and see no one who offers better, or is better).

rk: How casual you are about eschewing the Truth in favor of worshipping the false gods of thought that have been conditioned into you by forces you are not even aware of. That's some pact you made with "you know who." Hell, isn't it?

tl: Because I want what He has, not what you have.

rk: That's the nature of BASSACKWARD, is it not? You worship dead ideas while you eschew the living Truth.

tl: What I find in Him is far far better than anything I can find in myself or you.

rk: Belief becomes a pleasurable escape from living with yourself, does it not?

tl; He is pure, we are not.

rk: In your case, that statement is inarguable.

tl: My Soul yearns for Him, yet I see none of that in you

rk: How can a blind man who is bound to intellect see anything?

tl: Peace and truth to you Ray

rk: In view of the flow of this article, your last statement reeks of hypocrisy. I wonder if you can even "SEE" it?

Ray Karczewski

tl: New World Order= New World Consciousness!

tl: It seems to my fragile mind that the same people are behind the same things, though I could be wrong. Just some are decieved by them to think differently.

Reply


 

A Christ (not to be confused with a Christian) and a Satanist talk

Wednesday, 05-Apr-2000 00:14:43

208.26.131.17 writes:

Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 22:37:52 GMT

From: Christ Awareness Unk:

unk: A Christ and Satan Dueling with Himself

unk: Ray has nothing left to do but play ball with himself. No one will talk to him so he talks to himself.

rk: You will find that I do not talk to myself. From time to time, I DO repost articles of prior but timely conversations.

rk: In this instance, I reposted two articles to acquaint the average reader with the "Satanist mind" as it actually is, not as the SATANISM PR recruitment post to this forum, intent upon soliciting young minds, made it appear.

rk: As to people debating me, that's an impossibility, for my words are not debatable. I sow the seeds of Truth. They l either fall upon fertile ground or they do not. As such, these viable seeds of Truth are not in the least debatable. I AM the sower of Truth. In the dualistic setting of a corrupt, civilized Intellect, the conciousness of the reader may be likened to the fertile ground in which the seed of Truth yields understanding or conversely maintains itself as the hard, rocky, arid ground which insures a soul destroying, habitual, time-bound state of conditioned ignorance.

rk: Those who attack my writing anonymously are unable to attack the message as, quite frankly, they are unable to understand it. All that is left for them is to misdirect attention, play with words, and attack the messenger. Even at that, these limited Ignoramuses soon collapse like a "house of cards" when they are exposed by the Mirror of Truth.

unk: What is with this assinine reposting of something written a year ago?

rk: Nothing assinine about it. A Satanist took a run at recruitment in the Oregonian's Town Square Forum http://www.oregonlive.com/forums/townsquare/ I merely posted the articles to show the difference between the image presented and the actual corrupted spirit of a typical Satanist.

unk: No one will talk to this man but can you blame them?

rk: Nor do I blame them. Why would long-suffering, conditioned ignoramuses enslaved to the service of a Satanically-driven, dualistic Intellect want to expose themselves unnecessarily? You'll notice that all but a few posters who attack my work do so anonymously.

unk: He doesn't communicate, he doesn't know how to dialogue with the common "man".

rk: Common "man"? What does that mean? If you are referring to Ignoramuses who are incapable of communication, then we are tracking, for their shallow intellectual forte seems to be limited only to debate and argument. If you are saying that the "common man" is an ignoramus who throughout the ages of Civilized Society has been conditioned and enslaved to serve a Satanically ruled world of BASSACKWARDS, well then you and I are atone in understanding -- at least to that point.

unk: He dialogues with himself ,projects his own inconsistencies and contradictions on other people and then rants and argues with himself.

rk: Perhaps you will come up with a SINGLE piece of direct evidence to back up that statement? I personally doubt that you will, though. I have publicly challenged any and all who have attacked my posts to come up with one single, solitary "contradiction in essence" traced to my message in all of my thousands of posts since writing on the Internet NO ONE has been able to do it. What more evidence does one need of establishing the messenger as a man of Truth?

rk: There have been deceptions perpetrated by some who say they have uncovered such contradictions. Upon careful observation, however, it can easily be seen that "the contradictions" found were manufactured by the same wordtwisting, cowardly, anonymous disinformation types who lay in wait seeking to ambush another while playing fast-and-loose with the facts.

unk: That is sick. His self-doubt is self-created. It's such a pity to watch as someone hypnotizes himself into a psychosis and see his "essence" of humanity get slam-dunked into the primal scream.

rk: Merge with the essence of the above paragraph. Ask yourself, what do the words of "unk" reveal? Would you say they are the essence of a "trained" Mind controller/disinformation type or those of a typical poster? Your Call!!

unk: The primal scream that no one can help him climb out of, nor would he appreciate a helping hand when offered. He's too far gone over the edge and more's the pity that his wife can't help him because she has fallen into mire with him. Now, see the two lost souls trapped in the verbal mire of psychotic pestillence.

rk: Look at the familiarity the cowardly anonymous poster "unk" exhibits with my writing. He is no stranger, yet he hides. Why? He has no qualms about rendering an analysis of my wife and myself, yet he lacks the courage, backbone, and integrity to responsibly back up his comments with his true name/identity. It just might well be that he is one of the AFAB BULLIES/SKEPTICULTISTS/ROYBOTS already under investigation by the FBI for Conspiracy to Libel and conducting mind control/disinformation experiments on the Internet.

rk: A reasonable question is, Why don't people respond to my posts? Certainly most readers of these newsgroups lack the discernment to understand whether they are dealing with a Christ or a Bullshitter. So few of the former, so many of the latter are found in our modern day world, eh? The real question which must be settled before the Christ question can be understood is "how would the conditioned, habitual, finite intellect of the present "Politically/Religiously Correct-thinking" common man recognize the Infinite that is CHRIST CONSCIOUSNESS?

rk: In the limited essence of the intellectual judgment made by the anonymous poster, he is correct in saying that there are more of you than there are of me. I guess that's why dark spirited, cowardly, anonymous, pot shot-taking folks such as the cowardly ignoramus who posted the above analysis have been and will continue to be referred to as *LEGION.*

Ray Karczewski

Below is the Satanist Recruitment post directed toward our youth in the Oregonian's Town Square Forum

http://www.oregonlive.com/forums/townsquare/

What it means to be a Satanist

Town Square (New Admin)

Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:10:20 GMT

From: Smiling Happy Jesus :D

If you have read our books, you know that Satanism isn't about taking drugs, and it isn't about harming animals or children. Unlike many religions and philosophies, Satanism respects and exalts life. Children and animals are the purest expressions of that life force, and as such are held sacred and precious in the eyes of the Satanist. Besides, it is very un-Satanic to take any creature's life against its will. It is equally un-Satanic to cloud your brain and impair your judgment with mind-altering substances. A real magician has no need of those kinds of things, as he should be able to bring about changes in consciousness by the very power of his Will and imagination.

If you have not yet read The Satanic Bible, you should do so. It has a lot more information on our attitude toward Satan, and will give you a clearer idea of our philosophy, ideals and goals. Perhaps at first they will be difficult for you to understand, because you may have been raised in an environment that dictates that God=Good and Satan=Evil. The truth is that good and evil are often terms that people twist to suit their own purposes. Sometimes people will lie and try to make you think certain things just so you will do what they want you to do. Always remember that the final judgment is yours. That is both a great freedom and a great responsibility. For us, Satan is a symbol of the power of that choice.

There is no one way that a Satanist is "supposed" to be. Uniqueness and creativity are encouraged here, not mindless conformity. It doesn't matter what kind of music you like to listen to; it doesn't make any difference whether you prefer gothic music, black metal music, classical music, old popular tunes, or show tunes. It doesn't matter what style of clothes you like to wear. What does matter is that you are a mature, sensitive, self-aware individualist who revels in the Darkness, and who wishes to align yourself with others who share your views. In this world of prefabricated, media-saturated, unoriginal drones, it is up to the Satanist to cherish, maintain, and preserve true individuality and creativity. Satan represents freedom from hypocrisy, from convenient lies, and challenges that which is presumed to be true. He is strong and defiant, and inspires us to our own strengths.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That said, let's address some of your most commonly asked questions:

"How old do I have to be to join the Church of Satan?"

You may become a member of the Church of Satan at any age, though further participation in the organization is limited to those who are eighteen years of age or older. This is not meant as a judgment of your maturity; we've received letters from 14-year-olds who had a distinct, mature grasp of Satanism. But we must be realistic about the world around us. One reason is that we don't want to become a haven for the kind of sanctimonious perverts that Christian churches and other "Goodguy Badge" forums (such as Big Brother/Big Sister, Boy Scouts, etc.) often are. There are a lot of sick people out there, and we don't want our vital young Satanists to become victims of twisted adults who are more interested in contacting young kids than they are in practicing Satanism.

Another reason is because your parents or other adults in your life may not understand or might be hostile toward your exploration of this religion. They may try to causetrouble for us, falsely accusing us of any number of things, just because they feel threatened. So, we simply cannot allow anyone under the legal age of consent to participate in any activities directly sponsored by the Church of Satan. The only exception to this rule would be with the written permission and attendance of your parent or legal guardian. Some of you may be lucky enough to have a very good relationship with your parents and they may be supportive,even enthusiastic, bout your exploration of the Dark Side. They may be willing to go with you to meet a local Grotto Master and decide on your level of participation at this point in your magical development. If this is the case, let us know.

"Do I have to become a member to be a 'real' Satanist?"

All you have to do to be a real Satanist is start living like one. Dr. LaVey wrote The Satanic Bible so that people could pick up a copy, read it, and know everything they need to know about Satanism and how to put it to work in their own lives. Most people who choose to become members do so as a symbolic act to themselves, to formally align themselves with others of like mind, and to show their support for a philosophy and way of life they agree with. It is a purely personal decision - we don't solicit memberships. But actual membership usually conveys to others that you are serious about your beliefs, and that you know enough about it to have read Dr. LaVey's works and align yourself with his spearhead organization. It usually grants you a certain amount of respect as an authority. If you were going to speak as a member of the Church in a public forum, you should actually be one. If you were going to start a grotto affiliated with the Church of Satan, you'd have to be a member (again, you'd have to be over the age of eighteen). But as far as benefiting from Satanism in your life, or defending true Satanism, those are the rights and responsibilities of every Satanist, "official" or not.

"My parents and friends don't understand me, and don't approve of my interest in Satanism. How can I make them accept my beliefs, and where can I go to perform my rituals?"

Unfortunately, most young Satanists face this problem. Few of us are lucky enough to have sympathetic parents, or others around like ourselves. However, as long as you are living under your parents' roof and they are feeding and taking care of you, you do owe them a degree of consideration. Offer to let them read your books, and talk about what misunderstandings they may have from T.V. talk shows and Christian propaganda. But you can't force anyone to understand what, for you, is an obvious and magical revelation. If Satanism offends others who have necessary control over your life right now, do your studies and rituals in private. If you don't have a place at home where you can be alone, find a special spot on the beach, in a field, or in the woods where you can ritualize when you need to. While you are understandably enthusiastic about your new-found religion, it is not very Satanic to make yourself miserable by creating a problem with your parents when you have to live in the same house together, or at school where your real goal may be to aggravate those in authority in the guise of "expressing your individuality".

Practice Lesser Magic. Remember that a competent Satanic magician should be able to size up any situation and weigh his choices of action to bring about desired results. Enthusiasm is certainly encouraged and appreciated, however Satanism asks no one to be a martyr. And keep in mind that most people simply aren't going to understand because, ultimately, they don't want to. hat is as it should be. Satanism is not for everyone. Satan, by his very nature, walks alone. He is the true individualist, the outcast. This doesn't mean that you cannot care about those who are close to you; Satan also represents love, kindness and respect to those who deserve it. It just means that you should not concern yourself with people who do not approve of you. Revel in your uniqueness; be proud of who and what you are. Achieve all you can with the strength and determination of Satan himself coursing proudly through your veins. When Satanism leads to positive changes in your accomplishments and attitude, your parents and other adults around you will notice. The best way you can represent Satanism is by providing a living example of how the diabolical arts have made you a stronger, more focused person. The results will speak louder than any logical argument you can present.

"Is it better to study and ritualize alone, or to work with others?"

Unless you are able to find others who are as knowledgeable about Satanism as you are, it is better to work alone. If you do choose to ritualize with others, you must make certain that they are 100% clear on what Satanism is all about. If they are into it just out of curiosity or for thrills, they'll get their thrills all right - the wrong kind! Many young Satanists find they have one close, magical friend who they feel they can work with, but usually one of you is actually magically stronger and more sincere, and chances are that's you, since you're the one who has gone through the trouble of actually contacting the Church of Satan. It's often best for you to work and study alone, guided by the material in our literature, rather than have your magic and concentration diluted by would-be friends. As the saying goes, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. What that means in this case is that if you perform rituals with others who are not as serious and dedicated as you are, they will hinder your magic, not strengthen it. Many adult Satanists work and study alone by choice. Finding a true magical partner can be stimulating and rewarding, but if you need such a person in your magical progression, you'll conjure one up (see Herman Hesse's Demian or Illusions by Richard Bach).

Don't be disturbed or frightened or think you're crazy when you feel contacted by the Dark Ones you conjure forth, or by the magical results you begin to produce. You're not crazy for feeling the way you do about the hypocrisy, blindness and incompetence you see all around you. Nor are you crazy to see the results of your Black Magic. Approach the Dark Masters with the proper degree of respect and decorum - that's what rituals are for, to establish a relationship. If you approach the demons respectfully, they will reward you with knowledge, guidance, and success. Your demon guide is within you -don't look for it outside. You just have to contact that part of yourself and listen to it. That is the most important work anyone can do.

"Do I need all the things mentioned in The Satanic Bible to do my rituals?"

You don't need everything mentioned in Dr. LaVey's books to do an effective ritual. Maybe you don't have the money to obtain, or the private space to store, items such as swords, chalices, black robes, gongs and elaborate altars. Here is a powerful ritual you can perform tonight, and all you need is a quiet place where you can be alone, a Baphomet either on your person or in front of you, and a single black candle:

Light the candle and set it before you. Sit up straight, breathe deeply and relax. Clear your mind of all outside thoughts. As you gaze at the flame, say in your mind or out loud, "I am ready, oh, Dark Lord. I feel your strength within me and wish to honor you in my life. I am one of the Devil's Own. Hail Satan!" Open your mind. It will take time. You may think you are ready, but you may still find you cannot let go right away. Concentrate on your image of Satan and on the word "strength" and listen to what comes up from yourself. You have answers for yourself that no one else can give you. This is a simple way of conjuring Satan into your life. He'll snap you into line and tell you what you have to do to be happy, strong and focused - and he'll give you the stamina and courage to push yourself to do it. The path you've chosen won't be easy; sometimes it may be a nightmare. But when you are ready to face the challenge, it will be there.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few final words: Just because you are not yet eighteen doesn't mean that you cannot explore on your own these Dark Realms that are opening before you. This is a very potent, magical time. You were compelled to write to us for a reason, and right now you are going through an initiation into the Black Arts that must be all your own. Your body and your mind are going through intense changes. Take this time to learn all you can - about yourself and about the world around you. Explore your skills, talents, and inventiveness. Learn to play music, paint or build a robot. Use your brain and your heart to find out what is right, what is true, and what will make you stronger. You are not alone. You are different; you are superior, and it's okay for you to feel that way. You see what others do not; you know what evil lurks in the hearts of men. Don't settle for white-light bullshit just because you can't actively participate with other "official" Satanists right now. Don't fill your mind and dilute your magic with crap. Don't believe someone who claims to know more about Satanism than you do. You're the one who contacted us; you might even join. A friend your age probably doesn't know nearly as much about real magic as you do. An adult who claims special powers and who says he can initiate you into the Dark Realms is probably justlooking to fuel his own ego (or wallet).

Read our Bunco Sheet carefully so that you won't be taken advantage of, and look over the rest of our information. You don't have to join. Remember, to be a true Satanist all you have to do is start living like one, so don't complicate your life by pushing when it isn't necessary. Your status within the Church of Satan will be based on your real accomplishments in the outside world, not how many magical sigils you've memorized. The Church of Satan will be here when you are ready, and if your commitment is strong and sincere, you will benefit from this time. Your family and friends might be concerned at first because they've been brainwashed about what Satanism is. If they love you, when they see the positive changes that occur due to your new dedication to Satanism (and most of all, to yourself) they'll try to understand and support you.

Best wishes for further success and fulfillment. You are with us.

HAIL SATAN!

rk: For all you kids at home, did you notice this post comes to you "From: Smiling Happy Jesus :D " -- An anonymous cowardly deceiver who has neither the courage nor integrity to back up his recruitment spiel with his True Name/Idenity? Ask yourselves, why? He is attempting to draw you (seduce you) into a way of life from which you may not be able to turn back Pay close attention to such "red flags" of deception for it your life and you are the sole (soul) person responsible for it.

Ray Karczewski

Reply

CHRIST: Man or Manifested Consciousness?

Saturday, 01-Apr-2000 16:46:35

208.26.131.46 writes:

Apr 2000 09:27:28 +0100

"Tim Lamb"

"Raymond Karczewski"

tl: You are not Christ. John 1:12 -Some however, did receive him and believed in him; (Jesus Christ) so he gave them the right to become God's Children. You are not Christ because there is only one Christ, I'm afraid you sin, He doesn't. Unless you believe in Jesus, you cannot be counted as sons of God either.

With Love Tim

rk: Tim, in the passage above, you mechanically repeat a Bible verse and express your Christian conditioning.

rk: Nothing more, nothing less!

rk: Its vibratory dissonance is directly traceable to the dualistic resonance of belief, not holistic understanding. Do you understand the significance of what I have just said?

rk: Like millions of other indoctrinated blind believers, you have invested your soul (holistic spirit) in the worship of dead words. In doing so, you have violated the first Commandment of your Religion. You have fallen to the worship of the "false gods" of dead thought, while you eschew GOD -- the Living Truth.

rk: Jesus was persecuted, reviled, defamed, tortured, crucified and ultimately put to death at the hands of easily manipulatable blind believers not much different than yourself. A different time perhaps, but same manifest ignorance, eh?

rk: Did not these contemporaries of Jesus reject the Living Truth (that was Jesus and His personally expressed Words/Truth) in favor of defending an Organizationally imposed Religious/Cultural mindset constructed with dead words (the existing Jewish religious conditioning of the day)?

rk: Has not the essence of modern day, organized Christianity arisen from the consciousness of the PR man Paul of Tarsus, not Jesus?

rk: Were this not the case, earlier and modern day Christians would not have been so quick to support all of the death, destruction, and exploitation that has occurred in the Name of Christ in the ensuing centuries since the time of Jesus the Christ (one who resonates with Christ Consciousness).

rk: Were they to have discerned the Living Truth contained in the words of Jesus, they would be living their lives according to their understanding of His direct, quoted words, not the hearsay, mystical stories concocted by after-the-fact "talk-about," manipulating mind controllers.

rk: Irresponsible ignoramuses love such simplistic tales and children's stories. It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside as they fall under the spell of such positive-imaged, fantasized notions. That's the seduction into the Intellect, the Fall from Grace. That is the introduction into the altered state of Intellectually (Satanic/Opposer) governed dualistic consciousness that is constantly reinforced by those who rule through mind control. For most, it becomes so strong it cannot be broken, and thus follows the believer to his/her grave.

rk: Hell, isn't it?

rk: Throughout recorded history there has been no shortage of ambitious, satanically driven, mind controllers, i.e., priests, entertainers, political leaders and clergyman, who "knew" how to hold masses of hypnotically suggestible human beings in the palm of their hand through such manipulation of "spell binding" but empty rhetoric.

rk: Unfortunately, tim, you, like millions of other blind Christian believers (and countless other Religious Cult worshippers) lack the sensitivity to discern the "essence or spirit" of Truth in words of men like Jesus, myself, and others who understand and resonate with the essence of the Christ State.

Ray Karczewski

Reply

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

CHRIST: Man or Manifested Consciousness?

On Sun, 2 Apr 2000 13:04:32 +0100,

"Tim Lamb" wrote:

Raymond Karczewski wrote in message news:38e67017.461485285@news.meganews.com...

tl: >> You are not Christ. John 1:12 -Some however, did receive him and believed in him; (Jesus Christ) so he gave them the right to become God's Children. You are not Christ because there is only one Christ, I'm afraid you sin, He doesn't. Unless you believe in Jesus, you cannot be counted as sons of God either.

With Love Tim

rk: >> Tim, in the passage above, you mechanically repeat a Bible verse and express your Christian conditioning.

tl: >This is because Christ taught us to follow the scriptures.

rk: My point exactly. You mechanically repeat a Bible verse which has been interpreted into many "foreign" languages from the original language spoken by the personage you call Jesus the Christ.

rk: You omit to mention the fact that Jesus Christ personally reduced none of His teachings to the written word.

rk: You, like most conditioned Christians, give authority to terms and phrases such as "God's Word," "Jesus' Word," further obfuscating the fact that your source of "authority" comes not from God or Christ, but from the writers of history books; i.e., the Bible.

rk: As you surely must be aware of by now, being of a dualistic nature, verbal language is flawed. Without the multidimensional telepathic grasp of the essence or "spirit of the word" to round out the empty rhetorical vessel that is the linear "letter of the word," communication is not possible.

rk: Dualistic debate and argument is what one finds in expressing, not one's understanding, but one's beliefs.

rk: To commune with another is to be "as one." To come to an holistic understanding, a nondualistic vibration of "WHAT IS." That is the nondualistic vibratory nature of the Christ State. To debate, to argue, to wrangle over empty letter-of-the-words sans Spirit, is the nature of the Satanic (opposer ruled) dualism based Intellect. Tim, you're off to a shaky start!

rk: >> Nothing more, nothing less!

tl: >Well you can't beat perfection now can you

rk: Such comments are glib, trite, and an indicator of a hypocrite if the person who is speaking them is not OF the essence of the words spoken.

rk: This is the flaw of language referred to earlier.

rk: >> Its vibratory dissonance is directly traceable to the dualistic resonance of belief, not holistic understanding. Do you understand the significance of what I have just said?

tl: >Well I've conferenced with my dictionary and.. Vaguely, you think I am not following in spirit and truth.

rk: Such is an example of an educated (conditioned) unaware human being. Unable to listen quietly and just observe what is being communicated, the noise of a chattering, interpreting, conditioned, linear, analyzing intellect drowns out the subtle telepathic conveyed spirit of the word.

rk: Coming up short of clarity, the unaware intellect is lost in "vagueness." The confused, Satanically-ruled instrument of Intellect then seeks to "think" for the other person, positing a judgment upon himself for not "following in spirit and truth."

rk: Though the judgement is clearly traceable, the word-filled intellect of the one who is doing the judging is blind to it. Tim, you have just been Mirrored.

tl: I disagree, in fact I think the same about you, as there are many Christlike qualities you don't have, which if you had a pure 'holistic understanding' of Christ, we would see in you.

rk: Unfortunately, Tim, it doesn't work that way. You see, it really does "take one to recognize one." How would an unaware person recognize one who is aware? Likewise how would one locked in belief recognize one who resonates in understanding? The vibratory differences are enormous. However, empty rhetoric allows for the unaware to "think" they are aware and thus hypocritically pose as such. That is, until they step before an aware human being, a Christ, a Mirror of Truth. Hell, isn't it?

rk: >> Like millions of other indoctrinated blind believers, you have invested your soul (holistic spirit) in the worship of dead words. In doing so, you have violated the first Commandment of your Religion. You have fallen to the worship of the "false gods" of dead thought, while you eschew GOD -- the Living Truth.

tl: >Dead words as in the Bible? If so you then convict me using a commandment, that doesn't work.

rk: Ah! the verbal, debating game-player emerges. Such a Catch-22 only exposes you as a manipulator of language. Tim, you have just demonstrated the flaw of language in operation. Your momentum is that of one who is not interested in coming to understanding with another, but engaging in and perpetuating debate and "laying traps."

tl: If you think my understanding of the words are dead, then I would say as all you know and understand of me is the 5 lines I wrote to you, you are judging me.

rk: The five lines your wrote are enough! Time-bound, aftermoment-based (dead), Linear intellects require plodding analysis. A multidimensional Christ Consciousness perceives WHAT IS in the timeless, living moment of NOW.

tl: (Christ remember taught against that) The fact is that I worship God, and go by God's word. God's word is not idolatrous. I have a relationship with the living God. To accuse me of not doing so, is a rather false assumption

rk: You have the letter of the word down pat, as do most blindly believing, bible thumping Christians. You lack the living "spirit" of the word. You see, Tim, you, like other blind believers, live in your Intellect. You confused the reflection of words for that "unknownable" essence that is being reflected by the words.

rk: >> Jesus was persecuted, reviled, defamed, tortured, crucified and ultimately put to death at the hands of easily manipulatable blind believers not much different than yourself. A different time perhaps, but same manifest ignorance, eh?

tl: >Nope, I'm not a pharisee, nor do I follow this religiousness (the concept of doing things because you feel they should be done, even though you don't mean it). I follow Jesus and His teachings.

rk: The fact that you follow is your own self-indictment, isn't it, Tim? Ask yourself, who did the man Jesus follow? See what I mean? You're talking apples and oranges here yet are not even aware of it. Unawareness is the essence of Ignorance, is it not?

tl: Again to call me ignorant after knowing me for 5 lines, is either spiritually discerning (which isn't because it is wrong) or is someone making false assumptions.

rk: It is spiritually discernment. You can take that one to the bank!

rk: >> Did not these contemporaries of Jesus reject the Living Truth (that was Jesus and His personally expressed Words/Truth) in favor of defending an Organizationally imposed Religious/Cultural mindset constructed with dead words (the existing Jewish religious conditioning of the day)?

tl: >Some people do i agree. You can't say I do. Again that is judging.

rk: You don't like being mirrored, do you, Tim? Tell us who is doing the judging as they see the reflection facing them? Mirrors don't judge (not even verbal Mirrors). They merely reflect.

rk: >> Has not the essence of modern day, organized Christianity arisen from the consciousness of the PR man Paul of Tarsus, not Jesus?

tl: >No, organized Christianity has many faults, but people follow Jesus' teachings far more than Pauls, even so Paul was influenced by the Holy Spirit, who is of God and therefore the same as Jesus.

rk: All based on indoctrinated belief, eh? Tim, you are a Christian "talk about." see: http://x22.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=469801738

rk: >> Were this not the case, earlier and modern day Christians would not have been so quick to support all of the death, destruction, and exploitation that has occurred in the Name of Christ in the ensuing centuries since the time of Jesus the Christ (one who resonates with Christ Consciousness).

tl: >I do not support the crusades, I do not support any war in the name of religion (that I know about) since the arrival of Jesus.

rk: The HELL you don't. All who live and perceive life through their societally/culturally conditioned intellects are responsible for the world they have created for themselves and others through such conflicted, dualistic thought.

tl: Jesus taught 'blessed are the peacemakers' Don't judge me with Christianity's (not Christ's but Christianity's mistakes)

rk: ISN'T THAT CONVENIENT? Are you not supporting present Christianity? If so, you are responsible for its collective effect upon the world.

rk: >> Were they to have discerned the Living Truth contained in the words of Jesus, they would be living their lives according to their understanding of His direct, quoted words, not the hearsay, mystical stories concocted by after-the-fact, "talk-about," manipulating mind controllers.

tl: >Sorry, I follow Jesus' words not some manipulated influence

rk: There's that word "FOLLOW" again. Can you be "At-ONE" with Jesus' words and BE A CHRIST?

rk: >> Irresponsible ignoramuses love such simplistic tales and children's stories. It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside as they fall under the spell of such positive-imaged, fantasized notions. That's the seduction into the Intellect, the Fall from Grace. That is the introduction into the altered state of Intellectually (Satanic/Opposer) governed dualistic consciousness that is constantly reinforced by those who rule through mind control. For most, it becomes so strong it cannot be broken, and thus follows the believer to his/her grave.

tl: >Well I agree a lot of Jesus' teachings are misrepresented AT TIMES.

rk: What hubris comes with the mask of Christianity, eh? As if you and millions of other blindly believing Christians "even come close" to understanding Jesus' teachings?

rk: A believer who "knows and must follow" is a fragmented human being, a codependent. A Christ, being an holistic entity, understands, is at-one with the nondualistic essence of Truth, and stands alone, if necessary.

tl: Doesn't mean all Christians believe it. Mind Control is not possible, it is not possible to control the mind, only to influence it very persuasively.

rk: You like to play with words, do you not, tim? Bottom line, what have you just said?

tl: You have the choice to stay in the false mindset (i'm referring to all false teachings of the world here) or to come out of it. Remember we were given free will.

rk: Yes, I understand. All choice is based in confusion, is it not?

rk: Every educated ignoramus who "thinks" they are smart uses that rationalization of "free will" to justify their compensatory "followship/fellowship."

rk: >> Hell, isn't it?

tl: >No - Hell is a place without God, God exists on the earth.

rk: Hell is the Satanically driven (opposing) Intellect!

rk: >>Throughout recorded history there has been no shortage of ambitious, satanically driven, mind controllers, i.e., priests, entertainers, political leaders and clergyman, who "knew" how to hold masses of hypnotically suggestible human beings in the palm of their hand through such manipulation of "spell binding" but empty rhetoric.

tl: >Very few, look more to the media and forces behind it. Again I fear you fall into the general stereotyping of clergymen, or anyone of the church.

rk: Look to your clergymen. Are they Christs? They are merely the "blind leading the blind," are they not?

tl: They are not stern Satanists, living disgusting deprived lives. Most of them are seeking God (with different degrees of seeking) and living honest true lives.

rk: There is not a hair's breadth difference between a blindly believing Christian and a Satanist. They are two sides of the same coin. They need each other to function in a dualistic world of their own making.

rk: >> Unfortunately, tim, you, like millions of other blind Christian believers (and countless other Religious Cult worshippers) lack the sensitivity to discern the "essence or spirit" of Truth in words of men like Jesus, myself, and others who understand and resonate with the essence of the Christ State.

tl: >Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Luke 6:37 Straight from Jesus' mouth. Now you are worshipping false gods- yourself

rk: Now do you have any of your own words that you can speak? See what I mean about programmed Bible Thumping automatons? You're not a minister, are you, Tim?

tl: >Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven - Matt18 :4. Are you humble Raymond?

rk: HELL, YES, RAYMOND IS HUMBLE! Drop the comparative, dualistic judgments based in conditioned ideation, and you will understand the True Humility of the infinite Christ State.

Ray Karczewski

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