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and assist in ushering in a New
Consciousness on this Planet, then
welcome to our Spiritual Dialogue
Board
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) wrote:
Raymond Karczewski (arkent@arkenterprises.com) wrote:
Sun Aug 26 12:16:37 2001
rk: When will U.S. Taxpayers learn? Where will the money come from should the Klamath Falls, Oregon farmers win their case?
rk: Who will pay the freight for an errant government's tyranny over the very people who put such nonaccountable officials (servants) into office?
rk: The election system is not the way. The past presidential election has clearly shown that.
rk: The courts are not the way, unless they are under the JURISDICTION of the COMMON LAW and U.S. CONSTITUTION.
rk: The present system of Admiralty/Corporate law courts which neither recognize nor are required to comply with the provisions of the U.S. Constitution -- the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND -- and assumes its jurisdiction in ADMIRALTY/CORPORATE/MARITIME LAW is largely responsible for the shift to the present tyrannical, corporate-based government, the real culprit in the deterioration of our society.
rk: No, the Klamath Falls farmers are going about this BASSACKWARDS, but their present government/media-inculcated "politically correct" mind set prevents them from seeing that they make a grave mistake by playing into the hands of those who are masters at controlling them.
rk: A simple statement needed to be made, and the farmers failed to make it. The assertion comes from the answer to the question -- WHO IS THE REAL GOVERNMENT IN THESE, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? Is it the *PEOPLE,* or is it the servants the PEOPLE have put into office -- those who dream the BASSACKWARD dream that they are indeed *THE MASTERS*?
rk: That is the FUNDAMENTAL question which must be settled once and for all ! WHO IS THE REAL GOVERNMENT IN THESE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?
rk: The KF farmers had their opportunity to bring BALANCE back to our country last week when THOUSANDS came from all parts of our country to SUPPORT THEM.
rk: Yet THOUSANDS could not muster sufficient backbone to stand up to a few representative FEDERAL AGENTS and assert their collective will sufficiently to indisputably demonstrate the WILL, the RIGHT, and the SPIRIT of the TRUE United States Government -- a government "OF the people, BY the people, and FOR the people.
rk: Those who make the rules win the game. Let the rulemakers (the legislators) and rule deciders (the judges), our elected, appointed, and tax funded government officials, truly BE representative of the will of the PEOPLE and let them be bound by the U.S. Constitution, not auction off their allegiance to the highest bidder, be it Corporate America or the New World Order.
rk: Suing the government plays right into their hands, doesn't it? The rulemakers/deciders can delay, delay, delay, until the U.S. Constitution is suspended, never to return as the SUPREME LAW OF THIS LAND. When that occurs, where do you suppose jurisdiction over the American People will lie? Would the case be adjudicated under Common Law and the U.S. Constitution or would it be heard in the U.N. WORLD COURT at the HAGUE?
rk: It doesn't really take a "ROCKET SCIENTIST" to figure this one out, does it folks?
rk: Those *uncommon* men who established this country through their blood and love of freedom were also not ROCKET SCIENTISTS, yet they understood what they had to do AND THEY DID IT!!
rk: What has caused the spirit of Freedom to diminish in America in its 200+ years history? MIND CONTROL, THAT'S WHAT!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Klamath farmers plan to sue government for up to $1 billion
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) --
Klamath Basin irrigation districts representing area farmers plan to sue the federal government for as much as $1 billion for damages caused by the water cutoff this year.
The districts have retained the prominent Washington, D.C., property rights firm Marzulla & Marzulla to file the claim on their behalf, said Bob Harrison, chief of legislative affairs for the firm.
The case would be the largest of its kind and could be a turning point in the stalemate over Klamath Basin water, which this year was withheld from most farmers to sustain fish protected by the Endangered Species Act.
The large claim could force the federal government into a settlement that promises farmers the water they have demanded all summer.
Attorneys Roger and Nancie Marzulla will file the claim Friday in the U.S. Court of Claims in Washington, D.C., Harrison said.
He said the claim will seek compensation for irrigation districts that did not receive expected water this summer and probably for the city of Klamath Falls, which pledged money toward the case.
Roger Marzulla won a significant water rights claim on behalf of irrigators in the Tulare Lake area of central California earlier this year.
The Klamath claim will not seek a specific dollar amount in initial filings. That would be identified at a later stage, Harrison said. But he said the attorneys calculate damages at $250 million to $1 billion, based on the decline in land values prompted by the cutoff of water, making it by far the largest water-rights claim against the government.
Harrison said the irrigators are suing because they see ongoing mediation of the Klamath water struggle ending in stalemate.
The Marzullas are prominent in national property rights groups. Roger Marzulla worked with Interior Secretary Gale Norton at the Mountain States Legal Foundation in Denver and in the Reagan administration. Norton remains "a close personal friend" of the Marzullas, Harrison said.
Roger Marzulla also represented Nye County, Nev., in its battles with the federal government over road closures on public lands.
In the Tulare Lake case, the Court of Claims ruled that a decision to withhold irrigation water for protected salmon and smelt represented a government "taking" and farmers were entitled to compensation for it.
Harrison said the Klamath farmers have a case "at least as strong, if not stronger."
He said the firm hopes for a decision within 10 months.
Norton agreed to a limited release of water this summer that ran out Thursday. Congress has authorized $20 million in emergency aid to the about 1,400 farmers denied water.
http://www.sacbee.com/news/calreport/data/N2001-08-25-0030-0.html
Horseman wrote:
Sun Aug 26 19:46:29 2001
As long as the people are foolish enough to believe that this problem and the other problems between the government and the people can be handled by working through the system and with a little peaceful civil disobedience, are in for rude awakening when they find themselves sitting outside the fence looking at what used to be their farm or other property since they lost it to the bank, etc. I am starting to believe that this is a lost cause since the people who need to see the truth in time to do something to save their farms, are blind to the truth and refuse to see it. All they do is live in a dream world where the good and the just always prevail against all odds. Lets hope I am wrong about this, all we can do is hope.
g.Brown wrote:
Sun Aug 26 22:07:28 2001
Yes, this is true and before this money ever get's to the people that need it, our Government will string it out until most of the farmers are dead and the rest have moved on, if we win the case. Ask anyone who has tried to collect money from our ownselves, or read the history of these actions that are appealed through the courts for years and years, using are money to do so. There has been enough talk, it's time for action!
G.Brown
coyote wrote:
Sun Aug 26 21:50:58 2001
From the Klamath Basin, yes, we are trying everything and no, it is not working. The Wydens and Earls and willing seller solution people that have already given away lots and lots of our ag land with 0 water in return, and they are STILL compromising, our water districts still trying to 'make a deal' with the agencies, a few neighbors trying to make a buck at their neighbors' expense, 30 % of those going to dr are put on antidepressants (even those in their 70's and 80's, just wanting get by in their homes, on their land, in their community, for their final years)--we are living example of what would happen to the Waltons, Cartwrights and Little Houses on the Prairie with the socialist regime upon them. Our fathers, veterans, knew how to fight and to survive. They built the project, this intricate system of canals that all led to the refuge when the irrigators was finished with it. Our generation cannot even figure out how to distribute the little amount we have. Any bright ideas other that giving away more land and water to get less in return?
The following libelous attacks arise from the keyboards of assorted anonymous government/media disinformation agents who, through disruption, intimidation, and character assassination control the flow of information on public Usenet Newsgroups/Forums
You're a slave to your own mental illness
Re: Klamath Farmers Plan To Sue Government For Up To $1 billion (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:01:08 GMT
From: Your ignorance of law is stunning (unknown)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
` Question for Raymond Karczewski
Re: Town Square (New Admin)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:32:02 GMT
From: Completely at a loss (unknown)
O.K. I'll bite. I am completely at a loss. What exactly is there in anything you post here or elsewhere that would lead you to believe you are Christ or even Christ-like? It is rare to see such strange animosity, arogance, and hatred for strangers in anyone, much less someone who insists he is Christ. Any explanation?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why spam your attacks here?
Re: Ray-Ray-Ray-Ray-Ray!!!!! We need to understand (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:08:30 GMT
From: No one cares about your sociopathology (unknown)
Thsi post wasn't even posted here. Who are you talking to, and why trash this forum with your constant assaults on people in other places? Get it through your concrete skull you a**hole: no one gives a damn about your sociopathic personality. Got it now?
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Speaking for myself, shut the hell up already
Re: Ray-Ray-Ray-Ray-Ray!!!!! We need to understand (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:01:47 GMT
From: Your constant attacks are sickening (unknown)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yeah, the case is bound to be heard in Holland
Re: You're a slave to your own mental illness (Your ignorance of law is stunning)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:14:50 GMT
From: Your law school fraud is screaming thru (unknown)
unk: Why in the world would you think even for a split second that a Dutch court would have jurisdiction over this?
rk: Could it be perhaps because the U.N.'s World Court of the New World Order is located at the Hague in the Netherlands??
unk: And you claim you went to law school?
rk: Yep !! If you keep at it, you will find the records you seek!
unk: What the hell law school could possibly have taught you a Dutch court would have any authority over a matter occurring in Oregon???
rk: Check Internet Search Engines for key words "World Court" and "Hague."
unk: Oregon is in the UNITED STATES Ray, just in case you didn't realize that fact. Sheesh! What a f**king liar you are man.
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You haven't paid taxes for decades
Re: Klamath Farmers Plan To Sue Government For Up To $1 billion (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:11:43 GMT
From: You have no say in how we spend ourtaxes (unknown)
You have no voice in this matter Ray since you haven't worked or paid taxes for decades now. We will spend our tax money as we see fit, and there's not a damned thing you can do about it. Just be glad we don't pull our tax money from you and your parasite wife: without it you'd be out on the street. I'd be happy to see this happen personally.
Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:55:57 GMT
"Alexander Russell" (alexander.russell@telus.com) wrote:
"Raymond Karczewski" (arkent@internetcds.com) wrote in message
rk: >> I agree to the fact that neither of you "know" where I am coming from. That is the problem which faces the vast majority of conditioned believers unable to fathom my words of Truth as they unfold before them on these newsgroups/forums.
ar: > Anyone who claims to know the 'truth' is deluded.
rk: When Jesus "A Christ" stated some 2000 years ago, " I am the TRUTH, the Life, and the Way", was He deluded?
rk: The first thing one should learn to do is Speak for Oneself!
On June 6th, 2001 I filed a TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE: RACKETEER INFLUENCED AND CORRUPT ORGANIZATIONS (R.I.C.O.) complaint with the Medford, Oregon office of the FBI.
The complaint regarded an "Extortion by Theft" charge as outlined in Oregon Revised Statutes, 1999 EDITION, Chapter 164, Section 164.075 committed by deputies of the Douglas County Oregon Sheriff's office when I was unlawfully stopped in the early morning hours of June 5th, with no probable cause and the loaner automobile I was travelling in was confiscated.
This is being written on August 27th, 2001. It has now been 82 days since the RICO complaint was filed with the FBI, yet no contact has been made with me by FBI Investigators regarding follow up on the complaint
On July 13th, 2001 I directed a complaint of "Theft by Extortion" to the office of Douglas County District Attorney Jack Banta asking that he forward same to the Douglas County Grand Jury for their consideration of issuing an indictment for such unlawful practices routinely being conducted as a matter of Department Policy by the Douglas County Sheriff's Office.
45 days have passed, yet no contact or followup has been made regarding that issue by the Douglas County District Attorney's office and/or the Grand Jury itself.
See letter at: http://www.arkenterprises.com/dialch27.htm#Piracy
This is not unusual in my personal experience with our modern day law enforcement agencies. A Criminal Complaint was filed by me with the Medford, Oregon office of the FBI on November 2nd, 1997 regarding an ongoing Government/Media sponsored/supported mind control/disinformation operation targeting unwary users of the Internet. No action has been taken on that issue either to date.
See http://www.PetitionOnline.com/RayNita1/petition.html
One has to be living in LA LA LAND to miss the obvious point of this public malfeasance. The point being that our publicly funded agencies DO NOT WORK FOR THE PUBLIC, the people who fund their operation and who pay their salaries. The overwhelming evidence shows that these government agencies owe their allegiance only to their own Corporate Structure and work to promote their own CORPORATE GROWTH and increase their POWER BASE.
Why did I say LA LA land? Simply because it is insanity for the American Public, regardless of their level of Intelligence or emotional stability, to accept any other PR (public relations) explanation for such society destructive policies and still consider themselves to be normal, healthy, balanced, intelligent human beings.
The NEW WORLD ORDER has already told you of their intentions, have they not? Only the blind cannot see that they are now busily implementing them.
1. To REDUCE POPULATION
2. To TAKE CARS OFF THE ROAD
3. To Confiscate Private Property/Real Estate under the guise of eminent domain and bogus Environmental Issues. (Endangered Species/Water Rights, etc.)
4. To control the Food Chain by destroying farm and cattle production; thus leaving you to the mercy of the giant food Corporations who hold exclusive patents on genetically engineered foods.
5. To relocate rural populations to urban settings and/or to commit them to FEMA Concentration Camps.
6. To reduce this society to a "CASHLESS SOCIETY" wherein life and death of the individual can be determined by a mere anonymous keystroke on a computer.
7. By adjudicating matters through a Judicial System which no longer recognizes our U.S. CONSTITUTION; thus forcing the American Public to seek redress through the same Corporate Entity responsible for the destructive policies which now threaten our American Way of Life.
Can they succeed? Only if YOU ALLOW THEM TO DO SO.
Here is an inarguable TRUTH!! Listen to its resonance like you've never listened before, for your life depends on it.
NO ONE HAS POWER OVER YOU, UNLESS YOU GIVE IT TO THEM!
Understand first, that your MIND has been under the control of those who rule you. Most of you are unaware of the degree of its control over your own "FREE WILL." That is the HYPNOSIS of CIVILIZED life. Only in the Satanic world of MASTERS/SLAVES does the "politically/religiously correct-thinking" mind set rule the intellect of nondiscerning IGNORAMUSES?
This whole ILLUSORY momentum can be STOPPED cold in its tracks, without having to fire a single shot in Revolution.
How, you ask?
This return to the Illuminati-promoted Feudal System of Lords and Vassals, Masters and Slaves cannot continue without the cooperation of the mind controlled *value producers* -- the Vassals/Slaves, the "voluntary tax-paying public" themselves. Without having such control over the energy and production of conditioned value producers and USING IT AGAINST THEM in order to further cement their control over these "entranced" individuals, the present system of tyranny would disintegrate in the blink of an eye.
Think not? Pay attention to the following. Set aside your own conditioned greed to possess, to own, and to have power over others. Were you to look deeply enough within your own corrupted being you would find the same hellish, dualistic energy of power over others operating in you that your leaders employ over you.
As above, so below. Most of you have been "trained" since early age to climb the ladder which is supposed to lead to Heaven, only later to discover that it has taken you straight to Hell. What's more, you find that as long as you are in that Satanically driven dualistic mind set that is your normal perceptive state, confusion reigns supreme and there is not a damn thing you can do about it.
It has been already said, "Those who live by the sword shall perish by the sword." If you are one of them, there is no need to read any further.
However, to others who want a better world for themselves and their children, pay attention to the following. See the ABSOLUTENESS of such a simple shift of consciousness and our WORLD WILL CHANGE and there's not a damn thing GOVERNMENT or CORPORATE LEADERS can do about it!
1. Take back personal "control" over your money. Withdraw from the *Voluntary* withholding tax agreement you have with your employer. Get a full day's pay for a full day's work. Money is the symbol of your "output" of Life's energy. Guard it well!
2. Rescind the fictitious National Debt created through interest owed on valueless paper money by those who magickally "conjured" it up out of Nothing. Take your money out of the hands of the "money changers/handlers" -- the bankers.
3. Restructure your government by demanding that it fund its own services through the *Trillions* of dollars it currently has in its coffers through investments outlined in the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report -- CAFR!! Do this at least until there is a return to a stable, value backed monetary policy.
4. Abolish the IRS and the Federal Reserve System. Send them packing. Remove the United Nations from American Soil. Cut off all Monetary Contributions to them.
5. Return responsibility for the coining of money to a restructured Congress occupied by those who will RESTATE and HONOR their Constitutional Oath of Office.
6. Bring back our Military from foreign soil. Let them protect their own Loved Ones and Homes.
Do that, and there need not be a SHOT FIRED in Revolution!
How many of you reading this, who consider yourselves to be Intelligent, are really INTELLIGENT enough to see this as the only viable, bloodless solution to mankind's self-made present crisis?
Does it involve breaking the mold of the familiar habitual patterns of behavior which have long been inculcated into us through mind control? You BET IT DOES!
Do you have the COURAGE to face such an unknown?
Or does the familiar but inevitable fate which awaits all who prefer the security of slavery to freedom bind you through capitulation to an hypnotic bond you perceive too strong to break?
That's a question only you can answer as you probe it in the depth and quiet solitude of your own consciousness. Do not be ruled by the noisy consensus of the Hell-bound as they jockey to organize and establish position/power, but allow the clarity that comes only through the silence of solitude to guide you in your next step.
Be Honest. Be True to yourself. BE TRUTH!
That is all the protection you will ever need in life.
If you see the simple Truth of what has been expressed in this article, share it with your loved ones. Then repost the message to all Internet groups you perceive to have an interest in changing our world short of bloody revolution.
LET'S GET SERIOUS!!
Let us cover the Internet with this simple message of Peace.
Do not SINK to a NEW WORLD ORDER. LET US RISE to a NEW WORLD CONSCIOUSNESS.
My Brothers and Sisters in Klamath Falls, Oregon -- ARE YOU LISTENING?!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SAHTAH
THANK YOU!!!!!
Mon Sep 3 11:26:40 2001
YOUR INSPIRATION MEANS SO MUCH! THANK YOU FOR THE MESSAGE OF PEACE!
Veracity wrote:
Mon Aug 27 20:47:45 2001
An attempt to silence a man is to pay him homage, for it is an acknowledgment that his arguments are both impossible to answer and impossible to ignore.
28 Aug 2001 08:49:53 -0700
BlueAce69 (BlueAce69@NOSPAMdisinfo.net) wrote:
In article (nq6motgvhhae1s5t7s8pcqthn60g75n9qa@4ax.com), "Vanilla says...
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:52:23 GMT, DrPostman (Its@mysig.emailthere) dropped trou in alt.fan.art-bell and left the following steaming pile:
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:08:32 -0700, Raymond Karczewski (arkent@internetcds.com) wrote:
rk: >>>See http://www.PetitionOnline.com/RayNita1/petition.html
pm: >>192 signatures full of some really funny reading. Great work Ray!
vg: >I think he's managed to get back into the SuperNews killfile. He was out, for a while, but now, I don't ever see his original posts, anymore.
bya: Newsguy has had him killfiled since June.
rk: Here's a statement which cropped up recently on the groups that pretty much says it all.
"An attempt to silence a man is to pay him homage, for it is an acknowledgment that his arguments are both impossible to answer and impossible to ignore."
rk: Notice the frustration expressed in your following statement. Can't get beyond them thar one-liners, can you? Hell, isn't it?
bya: I wonder why the asshole isn't in jail yet?
rk: The frustration expressed in the above question only offers compelling evidence that what I have been saying all along about Rights vs Privilege has been the TRUTH.
rk: Now bya, you, vg and pm, along with the other anonymous AFAB disinformation ignoramuses, may crawl back into the darkness you call home!
The following libelous attacks arise from the keyboards of assorted anonymous government/media disinformation agents who, through disruption, intimidation, and character assassination control the flow of information on public Usenet Newsgroups/Forums
They can't act on your delusions Ray
Re: "Resist Not Evil" -- Just Don't Feed It!! (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:50:19 GMT
From: Can't wastemoney on your personal demons (unknown)
Ray, you're sick, and your personal delusions cannot serve as a legitimate basis for action by government authorities. They have better things to do with the taxpayers' time and money than chase your personal demons for you. Given your scamming your way out of paying taxes, you have no right to waste our tax money on this nonsense. Grow up Ray, and take responsibility for yourself. You need medical attention now.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pretty hysterical. They must have finally fined you.
Re: "Resist Not Evil" -- Just Don't Feed It!! (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:56:55 GMT
From: Pay your traffic fine yet? (unknown)
rk: 5. To relocate rural populations to urban settings and/or to commit them to FEMA Concentration Camps.
rk: 6. To reduce this society to a "CASHLESS SOCIETY" wherein life and death of the individual can be determined by a mere anonymous keystroke on a computer
Ray, reread this crap. Even you can surely see what a freaking kook you've become in your delusional paranoia. Concentration camps and "life and death" keyboard strokes? Your emotions are overwrought and have completely run away with you. You must feel no control whatsoever over your own life to entertain fantasies like these.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who is trying to silence you?
Re: "Resist Not Evil" -- Just Don't Feed It!! (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:18:44 GMT
From: No evidence or basis in reality for this (unknown)
Your spam is all over the place Ray. Not a soul cares about the ranting of yet another psychotic, self-aggrandizing Internet loon who thinks he's God, and it is obvious you're not being censored in the least. Only in the most extreme psychosis could you possibly imagine even for an instant anyone admires or fears you: this board is full of your crap on a daily basis, and it gets the ridicule such meglomania deserves. Further, you're the one who lives like a parasite off our taxes, you sam your way past obligations by claiming you're a "church," and you are the only one who is wholly dependent on us for everyhting you live on. So who needs to crawl back into the "darkess" he calls home? Not I. I work, contribute to society, treat people with decency, and don't shirk my responsibilities. You do none of these things. You act like a teenager who bites the hand who feeds him, yet does nothing but whine whenever he is forced to take responsibility for himself. I for one consider you nothing but disease whose money from public taxes should be cut immediately.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How exactly did you get to be so malicious?
Re: "Resist Not Evil" -- Just Don't Feed It!! (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:34:59 GMT
From: Unfathomable, your brand of hatred (unknown)
If you abused your children a fraction as badly as you abuse everyone else, no wonder they ran away the minute they could do so legally. Did you teach them to live like leeches off other people like you do? Are they too as despised and scorned for their lack of character and intelligence as you and Anita are? Vice and hatred like yours are unfathomable. It is a puzzle why God allows evil like you to exist. Usually people explain it by saying evil people like you are tests for the good among us: do we in our turn just become filth like you and try to outdo you in your pure corruption, or do we reject it because it is wrong, degrading, and plunges humanity down a sewer of corruption and despair? I guess your rage and fraud just go to show that to someone as evil as you are, the very word evil means nothing, only personal profit and self-aggrandizement. You have no concept of decency, integrity, intelligence, or honor, and you don't have the minimum sanity or brains to see what filth you really are. Given you can find nothing to affirm or honor in the whole of human existence, why don't you just end it all, and put yourself out of your misery? Too cowardly to do so I suppose?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually a better statement for you
Re: "Resist Not Evil" -- Just Don't Feed It!! (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:21:30 GMT
From: (unknown)
Hell is nothing but all the evil you've done come back at you in your turn to mirror your own hate and vice. Nothing more apt than in your case, eh, Ray? You've dedicated your life to harming people, to and you are doing nothing now other than receiving you reward for all you've done to others. I wonder if you have eyes to see this, or ears to hear the truth. So as you sow, so shall you reap. The rejection and ridicule you suffer for your arrogance and hate are more than richly deserved, do you not think? Hell, isn't it Ray?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray... (Liberal Panda)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:47:35 GMT
From: You're the one running from the cops Ray (unknown)
Yeah, you're such a "threat" to world order as we know it. Sheesh. No money, no education, no position, no influence, no home, no job, no family, no intelligence, nothing to say, no nothing. So just how are you "threatening" anyone? You're the one running from the cops. So who's threatened now? What a pitiful excuse for a human being.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wait a minute. Who do you think is paying you homage???
Re: "Resist Not Evil" -- Just Don't Feed It!! (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:59:26 GMT
From: Damn, you're more whacked than I thought (unknown)
If you really think people are paying you homage, you are vastly more insane than even I figured! Where in God's name did you get the idea that anyone pays you any respect at all? And based on what? I've never seen you get any reaction other than parody, sarcasm, and contempt. What evidence do you have that people pay you anything other than scorn and derision Ray? Or is this "homage" just another psycho delusion of yours, and when asked for actual evidence to support your belief you are revered, you'll conveniently ignore all inquiries? Homage??!! Homage, my ass.
Re: Town Square (New Admin)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:26:05 GMT
From: (unknown)
unk: "For many will come in my name, claiming, `I am the Christ' and will deceive many."
rk: Hells bells, you can't even quote scripture without slinking in the shadows of anonymity. Satanic, isn't it?
rk: It takes no great effort to see that a lie at its source is a lie at its end. Such is the nature of all deceptive momentums. Change occurs when momentum comes to an end. When dualistic deception ends, nondualistic TRUTH IS.
rk: Through such deceptive scripture, organized religious dogma attempts to head TRUTH off at the pass. It ensures that the lie will be "believed" as the Truth and the Truth believed to be a Lie.
rk: Some might even call it a preemptive attack upon the nondualistic TRUTH that is THE CHRIST CONSCIOUSNESS which MIRRORS such narrow, BASSACKWARD, belief-based points of view -- the source of all division and hatred. Your God-given estate of Divine Intelligence via direct perception has been tampered with. That is your FALL FROM GRACE.
rk: By promoting, preserving and maintaining such consensus-reinforced hypnotic belief in an outer directed, satanically created icon (image -- false god), organized religious institutions -- created and administered by worldly, ambitious men -- only perpetuate the BASSACKWARD sense of fellowship (Misery Loves Company) while the world continues to GO TO HELL!
rk: All who have understood their worldly conditioning and have transcended it, risen above its HELLBOUND prison cell of Intellect, are indeed CHRISTS who no longer suffer from AMNESIA.
rk: Reread the quoted scripture at the beginning of this post. You may well glimpse the subtlety of mind control responsible for the mess that belief dominated humans have made of this world.
The following libelous attacks arise from the keyboards of assorted anonymous government/media disinformation agents who, through disruption, intimidation, and character assassination control the flow of information on public Usenet Newsgroups/Forums
The Bible is not a fall from grace
Reaction from Oregon wrote:
Wed Aug 29 06:11:50 2001
All your filth and hate are showing through again Ray. et out of our state, and take your arsenal with you. Parasites like you and your wife were never welcome in Oregon to begin with. Take your disease and violence elsewhere.
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Your tax scam
Oregon Taxpayer wrote:
Wed Aug 29 06:09:28 2001
Ray, you are pure, festering filth. Do the good people who pay for you to take your life off realize the way you've chosen to scam past your social responsibilities? The fact is Ray told the government he is a "Church," and has demanded to be exempted from paying his fair share of money for public upkeep based on his delusions he is God. This of course doesn't stop him from demanding free medical treatment, free public funds to live off, and even extra money to pay for someone to copy his vanity pamphlets attacking Christians and decent, hard-working folks. The only "work" he does is attempting to(literally, at a casino) gamble that money into a larger amount, but he's really, really bad at gambling and loses what he puts on the table. He then demands more money from our taxes to make up for his losses. Anyone on this board want to tale Ray and Anita off our public rolls and pay to support their brand of social decay. We're glad to pay relocation costs.
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Wisdom is not mind control Ray
Christian Wisdom in not Satanic wrote:
Wed Aug 29 06:04:44 2001
Your reaction tells us everything about what a sick, demented person you are. The fact the Bible denounces your brand of hate and arrogance does not make it satanic. Obviously. In fact, it reveals that basic fact that your own overblown meglomania, rage, and unmitigated will to damage everyone around you are. All your screaming here proves is that you really are a malicious, evil man: what does it say about your decaying mind and soul that you start screaming when a mere Bible verse is quoted? There's nothing to scream about in this verse Ray, unless you are so corrupt in your own being that all goodness gives you pure fits.
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you remove your head from your ass
Their stanaic majrsties request that wrote:
Wed Aug 29 06:00:55 2001
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Why is the Bible "Satanic??"
Oregonian wrote:
Wed Aug 29 06:00:14 2001
Answer: because it reveals you for the pure corruption you are Ray. Look hard into the MIRROR OF TRVTH. You can't even post one damn thing without atacking evetyhing that is good, decent, and wise. Wisdom and the lack thereof is evident, and your evil and sheer hubris are screaming through loud and clear. Again!
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Get out of our state you god-damned parasite
Re: When Satanic Imagery Is Worshipped as Christ: (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:08:55 GMT
From: Take your guns and threats with you (unknown)
All your filth and hate are showing through again Ray. Get out of our state, and take your arsenal with you. Parasites like you and your wife were never welcome in Oregon to begin with. Take your disease and violence elsewhere.
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What the hell is your problem?
A question: is there ANYTHING you don't attack???????
Wed Aug 29 13:18:40 2001
You seem to be so full of hatred for everything not yourself, you are incapable of keeping yourself from attack. What the hell made you so sick in the head and full of hate and rage that you can't not attack everything in sight? What in the name of God could you possibly see as "satanic" in Christ's words, and why are you completely incapable of any kind of response save vicious vituperation and hysteria? My bet is you'll ignore this question, just like you have all the many, many questions asking you for proof of your accusations of "AFAB/Skepticult/Robot government/media/new world order disinformation agents" plotting against you every time someone disagrees with something you say. You're pretty obviously mentally ill Ray: you're better off getting to a doctor than continuing your hate-filled, miserable excuse for a life.
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TRUE TRUTH
Your "Mirror of TRVTH" is nothing but pure fraud
Wed Aug 29 13:23:00 2001
Let's review your history of fraud for these people, shall we Ray? Attacking people as the "Mirror of Trvth" might work for perfect strangers who don't know about you, but let's take a hard look at reality:
1) You have never worked as a writer, as you claim.
2) You have never worked as a philosopher, as you claim.
3) You have never had a book published, as you claim. You and your wife paid to have a short screed copied at a local printer's shop, and can't make your money back after many years of desperately thrying to hawk it.
4) You have no publisher, as you claim. "Ark Enterprises" is you and your wife.
5) You have no "offices," as you claim. You never have had offices at a publisher or anywhere else, but think it will impress people and fake them into taking you seriously.
6) The publisher at Who's Who made it very clear you do not appear in Who's Who as you claim. They disavowed anything to do with you, and said your claims are lies.
7) You never went to college, as you claim. You barely graduated high school.
8) You never went to law school, as you claim. All the law schools where you claim you went disavow you were ever even admitted.
9) You claim you're a "church" to get out of your responsibilities as a taxpayer, but you have never been a church, and are about as far away from holy or wise as they come. Furher, when called on all these matters, you refuse to furnish any facts to disprove the results of the investigation. The people at Townsquare already know all this, but apparently you are still trying to pass off your fraud on other boards where your history of fraud and abuse is unknown. Living such a tissue of lies must be HELL, ISN'T IT? Who exactly do you think you are to attack others when virtually everything you say is a lie?
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Christian Patriot
When did this board turn into a Christian-bashing forum
Wed Aug 29 13:30:19 2001
What is this kind of mindless nonsense doing here? I never even saw the original post: is this guy talking to himself, or did someone post this to begin with? And when did the boadr turn into a forum for attacking Christian as "satanists?"
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Not true. People send him money...
Re: Except that bRay deceives no one.
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:31:29 GMT
From: LP, reaching for that first stone... (unknown)
for his books and tapes. Amazon.com and Barnes & Noble advertise his books and advertise on his website. Ray, along with the other new-age religions have deceived many millions of people who would genuinely turn to the Bible otherwise. So long as people are searching for the everlasting, unchanging Truth about the meaning of life and eternity, and fear death and the unknown aftermath, people like Ray will be there to prey upon them and tell them, in warm, reassuring tones, that THEY are SPECIAL. The step from a Ray to a Jim Jones is but a small one. It's all there in the Bible for anyone to read.
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He advertises, but makes no money
Re: Not true. People send him money... (LP, reaching for that first stone...)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:21:17 GMT
From: Ray spends too much time in casinos (unknown) You must have missed Ray begging for alms here.
You also don't realize Ray literally gambles what money he takes from our taxes (he was forcibly retired from a very short stint as a cop because of his obvious mental illness), and loses everything that way too. He hasn't been able to unload his vanity tapes and pamphlets for many years now. He can't live off that, so attacks people who won't give him extra charity money to pay his bills.
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More reflexive insults. I'll not cast pearls before you
Re: Cast Not Pearls, Nor Resist Evil (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:09:11 GMT
From: You are pure swine the way you act (unknown)
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Another Bemused Christian
It's just this one kook. Ignore him.
Wed Aug 29 15:10:56 2001
Ray just spams his fights on other boards here, and no one knows why. Don't try and figure this guy out: he's crazy, apparently violent, and it's not worth even a moment of reflection trying to figure out what his ego trip is. Ignore him and he'll eventually go away. I hope.
Re: If only you land Laux would converse!! (Got any broomsticks?)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:33:51 GMT
From: (unknown)
unk: Neither of them "converse" with anybody
unk: "Converse" involves an exchange of ideas. They both fail on two levels. 1) Neither of them generates ideas ("idea" implies thought, a capability neither of these fools has shown), and 2) neither of them will accept anyone else's ideas. No exchange is possible with either of these two fools.
rk: Read your post again. Then ask yourself: Why would any sensible, reasonably intelligent person want to "Converse" with someone like you?
rk: What is the momentum of your article?
rk: What do you actually have to offer?
rk: Why the preemptive attack upon the Mirror of Truth?
rk: Fear of exposure, is it not?
rk: Hence you live in judgment of yourself and project it for ALL the world to see.
rk: Therein lies the answer as to why I personally do not waste time conversing with persons such as yourself.
rk: Two adages come to consciousness -- "Resist not Evil" and "do not cast pearls before the Swine."
To the folks at Klamath Falls who came to their senses today, saw what they had to do and went out and did it, I offer my congratulations.
You transcended the fear and apprehension in dealing with government officials that has been inculcated into you through years of mind control.
YOU FOUGHT CITY HALL and came out of it unscathed.
The Feds, our Public Servants who have been conditioned to believe they are our Masters, lost their ability to divide and conquer through their usual techniques of threats and intimidation.
You pulled the curtain aside. In doing so, you exposed the man behind the curtain.
You found out for yourself that there never was a WIZARD hiding behind that curtain, only an ordinary man, no different than yourselves.
You came to a realization that allowed you to transcend your government/media conditioning.
That is a new experience for most of you. You focused National attention, you put your collective finger upon the Cancer of Tyranny which threatens our American Way of Life.
Make no mistake about it. You *acted* with courage. You did not *react* with fear. You acted with the force of Right. That is the lesson your actions communicated today to the world. In doing so, you gave heart to the oppressed, wherever they may live in this world.
I would caution you, however, that it is by no means over. Do not delude yourselves that this is the end. It may well be just the beginning.
Consider, if you will, making your message crystal clear as to who the government really is -- Whether the power of Government is vested in the People or in the Servants of the People. That is a message which must resonate throughout the land without equivocation.
Send the feds home until the diplomats and the politicians hash out a new understanding with the leaders of your community.
Beware of Government Tactics which attempt to lull you into a false sense of security. Never, for a moment, forget the lessons of Waco and Ruby Ridge.
One way to be assured of your newfound status of freedom is to assert you sovereignty and remove the federal employees from the property just as they attempted to remove you. Let them see clearly and unequivocally who the MASTER is and who is the SERVANT.
Now that you have started your march toward freedom and Sovereignty, you must be prepared to finish what you have begun. Victory is never complete without closure.
Your successful assertion of sovereignty came when a group of individuals shook off the hypnotic baggage they have carried around for years, transcended their fears, and did what had to be done.
NOW IT'S UP TO YOU TO KEEP IT. IT AIN'T OVER TILL IT'S OVER.
When the rest of the Country fully understands what has happened in Klamath Falls, Oregon on this date, they, too, shall find the strength in themselves to do what must be done.
You folks gifted this country with a demonstration of the True Spirit of Patriotism.
You have my personal thanks.
The following libelous attacks arise from the keyboards of assorted anonymous government/media disinformation agents who, through disruption, intimidation, and character assassination control the flow of information on public Usenet Newsgroups/Forums
Pathetic Ass Kissing as Far as I'm Concerned Ray...
Re: Klamath Falls, Oregon: It Ain't Over Till It's Over!! (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 05:23:17 GMT
From: EJL63FLH(ell isn't it?) (unknown)
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You always come out late at night like a roach
Re: Klamath Falls, Oregon: It Ain't Over Till It's Over!! (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:12:44 GMT
From: Leaving your insect excrement behind (unknown)
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Talk is cheap.
Re: Klamath Falls, Oregon: It Ain't Over Till It's Over!! (Raymond Karczewski)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:53:09 GMT
From: You're a two-bit piker Ray. (unknown)
Why would you think spamming tirades here several times a day somehow replaces principled dissent in the face of oppressive government? You're a dilletant Ray, and a piker in matters of political engagement. If you want to be some "freedom fighter," do it then and take responsibility for your actions!! Spamming your discontent here constantly does NOTHING to change anything, and tacitly acquiesces to the oppression. So Ray, you're just part of the system, no matter how much spam you post and repost here. What are you prepared to actually DO about anything? Just spam more and more screeds on this two-bit board, and declare that dissent? What a joke and piker you are.
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` Gary Larrabee
I appreciate your commitment Ray
Wed Aug 29 23:22:33 2001
Ray,
I believe many people have mis-understood you in the past. I believe that you are a true Patriot and these are words of wisdom and encouragement for all of us who claim to be Patriots.
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His words are emptym, and he never ACTS
But Ray himself runs away every time!
Thu Aug 30 06:23:41 2001
You are the one who has "misunderstood." It is obvious you have never met Ray, and know NOTHING about this man. Why is that?
Ray: I guess if you ingratiate yourself enough, you think people will forget you yourself tucked tail and ran away from court, even after all your threats and bluster against all of us here who DO know you. What does a post like this mean from someone who runs away from his own responsibilities, and doesn't have the minimum integrity to account for himself and accept the responsibilities for his own actions? Your words are again empty bluster, and you yourself don't have the courage and dignity to act on anything you ever say. Despite what people who have never met you say, you live a very low life, and never stand up and actually ACT on anything you post. Why is that?
And for the poster here praising Ray's hypocrisy: why have people so lowered their own moral and political standards to the point where mere empty words suffice as a substitute for political action?
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`` This is the danger for real patriots
Words suffice in the post-Clinton age
Thu Aug 30 06:42:00 2001
Ray is "reinventing" himself, and this guy, for whatever reason, is abetting him. Ray has flattered his personal conceits, and that suffices: what then could it possibly matter if Ray's words aren't true or authentic? The words alone, the story alone, now suffices: did you miss all that garbage about Bill Clinton? There will always be a certain number of such kooks who undercut real patriots in their labors to better government and society in general: this is the battle we must fight with the general public, who wants to reduce us all to such people so as to better and more legitimately dismiss us. I am sorry to see the patriot movment cave into them, and thereby lose all possibility of credibility and political power it could ever have enjoyed.
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Lisa
I am not a Christian. What is your problem?
Thu Aug 30 06:38:47 2001
Re-read the post man: I NEVER said I was a Christian!! Your attack is not only unfounded, but shows how totally bankrupt you really are both in terms of intelligence and character. Your support for this guy has nothing to do with facts or patriotic concerns: you've got your own personal problems dealing with other people, you yourself have an ax to grind for some reason I don't care about, and are taking your aggression out on me. Get this though: I DON'T CARE. If you've never met the man, can't back up a word you say, and can't even read a short, simple post asking for proof supporting your hysterical and absurd accusations, why should anyone care about your attacks and take them seriously?
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Gary Larrabee
This may be where Ray is coming from?
Thu Aug 30 20:00:23 2001
New Testament believers are called sons of God.
Accoring to Psalm 82.6 In the Old Testament, the word god is used for those who represented God.
Jesus seems to say that The Jews who opposed him for saying he was God should not oppose him for saying he was the son of God. John 10:33-35
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
This may be where Ray is coming From?
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You can go to the hell you will for yourself
Spewing invective. As I thought. Worthless
Thu Aug 30 06:31:49 2001
READ the history of all of Ray's literally tens of thousands of posts attacking people over many years: all the facts have been posted **hundreds** of times on scores of boards, along with complete and documented refutations, and it is impossible to reproduce all of those posts every time someone who doesn't even bother to inform himself attacks people out of some personal agenda of anti-Christian sentiment. The fact Ray ignores all requests for evidence and facts meets the same fate as the request I made to you: you are the same brand of kook and attack on the same uninformaed basis (because actual knowledge of facts nad evidence would undercut every crackpot claim you make). One thing is clear: you haven't any information whatsoever about this guy, you've never met him, and you're defending this garbage out of some weird sense of personal hate for society. You speak out of sheer ignorance. Your posts speak for themselves. It is worthless haveing anything to do with disgruntled, marginalized kooks like you.
Pay Close attention to the increased frantic attacks launched by the the Government/Media sponsored Supported Mind Controllers/Disinformation Agents designed to discredit my writings and smear my reputation on the Internet.
It's no accident. That I can assure you. There is NO ONE ELSE on the internet who has garnered this level of continuous and unabated destructive smears and libels for so long yet stands firm and unmoved by it all. There's a lesson there for all to learn in understanding their own sovereignty.
Make no mistake about it. My longevity on the internet is testimony to the effectiveness of TRUTH disseminated in my writing as it stands solidly and immovably before the GATES OF HELL. For proof of such statement, I invite ALL to visit my bulletin board at http://www.arkenterprises.com/dialchst.htm and check out for themselves the articles marked with ***.
While reading these articles, pay particular attention to the fact that these libels arise from the keyboards of cowardly, shadow-dwelling, anonymous posters, who lack the integrity to back up their words with their true names, let alone offer any evidence to back up their LIBELOUS statements. Pay attention also to the identical styles of writing written under a host of internet aliases, handles and ultimately reduced to the generic name of "UNKNOWN." This is no accident either. How else can these mind controllers/disinformation agents create the illusion of NUMBERS without an ability to change identities at will.
These cowardly shadow-dwellers sell the big lie to the gullible and the spiritually blind.
They do it through incremental and unrelenting suggestion, never offering any proof. Through threat and intimidation and repeating lies until the lie is believed to be the truth, they understand as Hitler did in selling the "Big Lie" that entire populations can be controlled by government/media/Intelligence Communitty propagandists when setting out to undermine a country's political stability prior to political takeover.
Yesterday, the folks at Klamath Falls demonstrated to the country and to the world HOW TO DEAL with with such nonsense. They reset the proper relationship between a government and the People. It remains to be seen whether the rest of the country picked up on the lesson taught by the Klamath Falls farmers and their supporters.
My writings throughout the years have been toward demonstrating that point of personal SOVEREIGNTY. Remove the shadows, open the closed doors where power is practiced, shine the light of truth upon all participants and the present intrigue and quest for consolidation of power into the hands of the few who rule over the many would disintegrate in the blink of an eye. That's all there is to the NEW WORLD ORDER folks!! Just SMOKE AND MIRRORS!!!
Political Power cannot stand up to the Light of Truth, be it from a community or a single person.
That is the lesson being taught presently by the folks in KLAMATH FALLS OREGON.
That is the lesson being taught on the internet the iconoclastic articles and posts of Raymond Karczewski. You can see the Hell it has raised.
Now take another look at those anonymous posts marked with "***" and tell us what you see!!!
Wake up Folks, It's time to take back control of your country and it's also time to take back control of your lives.
That's the beauty of it: Ray's not sane
Re: Amen to that. (Your behavior is inexcusably stupid Ray)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:35:11 GMT From: (unknown)
Not only is he f**king out of his mind, the only person he has any contact with is a spineless enabler (his kook wife Anita). As long as Ray has even one disciple worshipping his sickness, there's nothing to be done to help him regain his health. That is, until he actually takes to the streets armed to the teeth, as he has repeatedly threatened to do in the past. Let's hope they nab him before he hurts anyone.
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Ray's his own religion, period.
Ray's "coming from "unmitigated meglomania
Fri Aug 31 06:37:03 2001
Ray is his own religion, worships only himself, and had done so for decades. Nothing more to it.
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Ego is the death of soul and spirit
Amen. No man is God or Christ.
Fri Aug 31 09:07:28 2001
This is the root of Ray's mental illness: he wants to replace what is holy with human arrogance and sin. Until he understands how thoroughly corrupted his soul is by his own hubris and hate, he will never see the light of God.
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Confessions of Government/Media Internet Disinformation Agents. WAKE UP, AMERICA!!
Re: Town Square (New Admin)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:25:23 GMT
From: Liberal Panda (unknown)
lp: I did it!
lp: I am the creep who copied a passage from your book and pasted it onto the forum.
lp: Does that make me an "Internet Disinformation Agent"? I guess so, but really it was just a prank to see how people would respond to your own words.
rk: Why does your "In your Face" Confession ring with the identical energy as that of AFAB BULLIES dr. digger and vanilla gorilla? See for yourself!!
dr. digger wrote:
d: Fuck that right! I'm guilty! ...
d: I, for one, have already tried to turn myself in to the FBI. As you recall, I called the Medford Resident Agency, and offered to assist them in their investigation. Not only did they not want to hear my confession, but they weren't interested in questioning me, nor even in talking to me! After a month, no Special Agent has shown up at my door!
d: Now look, I have waived all my 5th amendment rights! I confess! I have ridiculed you, blocked your posts, libeled you, called you a fucking liar repeatedly, denied you your freedom of speech, and conspired with others to do all the above! Is there anything else? I confess to everything! I admit I'm guilty as a at with canary feathers all over its puss! What more do you possibly need, bRaaay?
d: Now, where's my everluvven FBI agent, you bottom-feeding motherfucker?
and vanilla gorrilla:
vg: This is called "oligarchy", or "rule by the elite". It's supposed to be this way, and I am fully in favor of it. People like me rule people like you, because we are morally, mentally, and physically superior, to you. Frankly, we couldn't care less, whether you or anyone else are aware of it, as you are far too impotent to be able to do anything about it.
rk: AMERICA, he is talking to you, isn't he? Can you be as OBTUSE as he makes you out to be? After all, he makes no bones about it, does he? He expresses the very essence of *Elitist Rule* of the coming New World Order, and he tells you exactly where YOU fit in.
vg: Ever wonder why almost five years of your plaintive wailing have had NO effect, whatsoever? Well, wonder no more, Fat Boy. We know. You know. We know that YOU know, and now, you know that WE know. We just don't give a shit. Your poor, minuscule intellect cannot even comprehend its own insignificance. It's the old "mind over matter" problem, we don't mind, and you don't matter.
vg: It's like this: If you were good enough, you'd be in charge now.
vg: It's so simple, even you should have been able to figure it out, before now, but you haven't.
rk: Anybody notice the ABSOLUTE NEED for these pathetic, shadow dwelling, self-professed "superior" creatures to employ multiple masks of anonymity in order to "protect" their professional/personal identities?
rk: America is in for a *great surprise* when the STONE WALL of SILENCE surrounding this Government/Media sponsored/supported Internet Mind Control/Disinformation Experiment finally comes tumbling down exposing the identities behind the masks as well known media names. These are the people who rule you, America. You have just had a momentary glimpse of the "man/men behind the curtain," shorn of their PR Image. There is NO WIZARD -- Only those who would enslave you. Is this not the "oligarchy", or "rule by the elite" mentioned in v.g.'s post above? You now know what they actually think of you.
lp: The reponse was predictable and, sadly, so was yours.
lp: I apologize for pulling a prank on you and the forum readers, even though the words I posted were, in fact, yours.
rk: Why should that surprise anyone? None of you have the capacity to operate in life with either integrity or intelligence. You mistake cleverness for Intelligence. How smart is that?
lp: Or, I am part of a huge conspiracy to discredit you and suppress your knowledge and try to poison the minds of the "sheeple".
rk: Why not back your words up with your true identity? That's all that's required to bring this six-year-long mind control/disinformation campaign to a close. The fact that the American Public are considered by their leadership to be TOO DUMBED DOWN to see such a simple solution is the reason that the American People are about to LOSE THEIR COUNTRY!
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Ray K's posts successfully blocked from Supernews
Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:38:38 GMT
digger (bad@example.com)
Legion Central has announced that the conspiracy to block Raymond Karczewski's posts from Supernews has been a success. The posts are being intercepted before they get there by the bRayBlock2000® AntiChrist bitbucket router, operating on an OpenCarnivore™ server.
Conspiracies are also in place to block these posts from Concentric and Pacbell as well. By the end of the year, nobody will be able to read Ray's posts anywhere.
It is thought to be unlikely that Ray will notice.
-- dr. digger,
BsD, PMAFA
Ambushing Sidewinder of the SKEP-TI-CULT
Blocking Ray's posts since 1996
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Re: The Effectiveness of the Christ Message -- Raises Hell, doesn't it?
Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:57:48 GMT
digger (ad@example.com)
d: Meet Ray Karczewski, Unakook, Usenet Kook of the Month in June 2000.
d: Interesting how Ray complains about being censored on all the web boards he tries to overrun with floods of nonsense... and yet, amazingly enough, on his own web board he censors anyone who doesn't suck up.
d: Which is why it only has messages from Ray.
d: Enjoy it while you can. Pretty soon Ray's posts won't appear on Usenet at all.
rk: > > That is the lesson being taught on the internet the iconoclastic articles and posts of Raymond Karczewski. You can see the Hell it has raised.
d: The other funny part is that "The Iconoclast" is a magazine that Roy Masters once published. Now Ray calls himself an Iconoclast because he wants to be just like his former hero. But Roy Masters realized Ray was even kookier than he was, so schism happened.
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Calling All Integral Journalists--Calling All Integral Journalists!! Where are You?? (Was: Re: Quite a story )
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:01:37 GMT
From: AFAB Bullyette (unknown) wrote:
Raymond Karczewxki (arkent@arkenterprises.com) wrote:
AFABB: Roybots
AFABB: Roy Masters had a call-in radio show in the Oregon area and Ray used to make a fool of himself by bugging the show constantly to have his say. He got so bad that Roy finally had him rejected as a caller. Roy Masters also eschews the hypnotic/mind control theme. Look on the web ,if you like, for his web page. Ray calls anyone who even agrees on one point with Roy Masters a "Roybot". Which is odd, because Ray writes more in the style of Roy Masters than anyone I've seen responding to Ray.
AFABB: All of Roy Masters' fans have left his fan newsgroup and gone to email lists and now Ray is the only one there posting his screed.
rk: Is there no end to the these deceptive spins by government/media supported anonymous disinformation agents?
rk: I did not coin the phrase "ROYBOT." It originated from roy masters himself.
rk: The fact is that I NEVER CALLED A ROY MASTERS SHOW and spoke to him directly.
rk: I called one time when masters was a "guest" on a talk show hosted by "bob just," an employee of Southern Oregon radio station KOPE (roy masters' family owned the radio station at the time). Members of the masters' family are still part of the network organization headquartered in the same building which was responsible for bringing you the "Art Bell Show" and the current "Coast to Coast" show.
rk: How many radio talk show listeners and readers of these newsgroups/forums have paid close attention to the number of merry-go-round, rotating, limited roster of guests which made up the regulars on the old Art Bell show and now the Coast to Coast show hosted by mike siegel, openly speak of their past/present Intelligence community background/ties? Red Flags, anyone??
rk: At any rate, as to the single time I called a show wherein roy masters was a guest, when my call was finally answered after being put on hold for approximately 15-20 minutes, I was told by the host, "bob just," to call back at another time -- that there was not sufficient time for me to make my point (a favorite control technique repeatedly used by masters and other talk show hosts at the station). The question which must be asked is why the call was taken "on air" in the first place if there was no time to take it?
rk: The talk show host, "bob just," came unglued on the air and cut me off when I exposed the repeated use of the cut-off ploy and brought it into public focus. He continued with his tirade long after he had cut me off. Miraculously, he found sufficient time for that. More Red Flags, anyone??
rk: Actually, the talk show host who was responsible for my being barred from calling in to the Southern Oregon radio station KOPE, was the son of roy masters and member of the board of directors of KOPE, david masters. He regularly came unglued with comments and questions I put to him on the air. Has anyone been paying attention to the signature "royson" which has appeared on some of these recent "anonymous" posts? Coincidence??
rk: The KOPE talk show host "bob white," whose true identity is Neale Donald Walsch, author of "Conversations with God," was the only talk show host at the time who defied station board of director policy banning me from speaking on the talk shows. He took my calls.
rk: He openly declared on one show that no one was going to dictate policy as to who he should or should not allow to call HIS show.
rk: Walsch cohosted "talk shows" with david masters and can well testify to david masters' propensity for coming unglued with my comments.
rk: Anyone interested in confirming this directly, contact Neale Donald Walsch and get his side of what really went on back in those days.
rk: I invite any/all journalists who still possess a semblance of journalistic integrity and have the courage to break this scandalous, STONE WALLED government/media mind control/disinformation national issue publicly to jump right in. Isn't that what Investigative Journalism is all about?? OR IS IT?
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Re: Calling All Integral Journalists--Calling All Integral Journalists!! Where are You?? (Was: Re: Quite a story )
To shed light on the brief and ONLY on-air communication between Ray Karczewski and Roy Masters, a guest on "the Bob Just Show", Southern Oregon's Talk Show radio station KOPE. The following is a transcript of that muddled, conflicted, never-got-off-the ground, 56-second event. Pay attention to talk show host "Bob Just" as he runs interference for his boss, Roy Masters, throughout the interview.
Inasmuch as the station's policy in the past has been to encourage listeners to privately tape their talk shows and have advertised for sale radios/recorders designed for that very purpose, in doing so they waive their limited copyright protection. Since I was an active participant to the call itself, and I am willing to share it with the readers of these newsgroups/forums, reprinting this transcription of that call is not a violation of my copyrights as to my participation in the conversation. With that out of the way, here is the conversation:
bob just: "Ah! We got Ray from Cave Junction. Ray, sorry for the wait. Do you have a quick comment or a question? Go ahead."
ray: "Uh! I have a few comments."
bob just:: "Uh, sorry, because there's limited time. Just hit, hit the most important ones for us."
ray: "Ah! boy, I've been holding on for......".("bob just" talks over ray.).
bob just: "I know, I know, I know. Sorry. Well, know what, you can call, I mean, they're gonna be on the air, Roy and Jessie (Peterson) are gonna be on the air the rest of the week."
ray: "roy, I want, let me make my remarks now, please. roy, may I have your permission to speak freely?".
roy masters : (background voice muffled as bob just is simultaneously talking over him) "Well, I don't know why you shouldn't."
bob just: "Well, uh, Ray, look." (Starts to say listen but only gets out) "List...You don't have to be formal here. Ah, eh, a few minutes to go. Make your point. They're gonna be on the air at, all night, tomorrow night, my show, through the weekend and every mon, every mon morning."
ray: "This is the mind control technique that you folk practice all the time by putting something off..." (becomes unintelligible because of being talked over by bob just.)
bob just: "Ah, ok ray, get lost. Call another night, ok? I don't need to deal with this now.---Ed from Jacksonville, you're on KOPE."
ed: "Yes, hello. I'm..." ("bob just" talks over ed and says "I mean, what a bunch of stuff, you know? You know, final message, ray, if you're listening, call on the roy masters and jessie peterson show. I don't need to deal with that here.) ----"Go ahead, Ed."
End of transcription
Note that with the extreme pressure placed on me due to "bob just's" time shortage ploy which prevented me from getting a word in edgewise, he still had enough time to take on another caller.
Curious, is it not?
This is but one example of how my calls were received back in those days.
Other talk show callers have been treated similarly through such mind control techniques. The average talk show caller is unaware of this simple mind control technique which traumatizes the caller and creates the "spell" of control..
Fair? Just? Free Speech? Your call!!
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Re: The Shallowness of Sentimentality (Was Re: 12:12 PEACE )
On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:38:20 -0700, "Rev. P. Villa, S.J." (agape@!WHOAtrail.com) wrote:
rk: >> Don't fret. The lessons are far from over!
Ray Karczewski
hm/pv: >RK, is it really possible for a person to be as dense as you.? I truly hope >that you are a magnificent troll and rotflyao.
hm/pv: >Oh Goodie...more lessons! I can barely contain myself.
hm/pv: >Be sure to play nice Ray...somebody has the goods on you I think.
rk: Talk is cheap. Let that "somebody" with "the goods" (you are so quick to qualify with "I think") make himself known. Now wouldn't that be an extraordinary departure from the typical masked AFAB Bully approach--an integral action?!
rk: My life is an open book. I'm ready to read what that mysterious "somebody" has to say. I am sure you will find many others on these newsgroups who are similarly interested in what that mystery "somebody" has to say. Perhaps we can add it to the already overwhelming and everincreasing pile of evidence for the criminal Conspiracy to Libel trial.
rk: By the way, hugh morles aka P Villa, the tactic you have used above has already been used in the past by David Masters (I recall in a past post you denied being David Masters), son of Roy Masters, on the open airwaves of his radio talk show. It didn't work for him then; it will not work for you now. Here is the pertinent excerpt.
rk: . . . *At that point, the talk show host, a member of the board of directors, in an attempt to bully my wife, threatened to expose damaging information about me if she persisted with the call.*
rk: For the full article, see the article "Media Unmasked" below:
rk: I am sure the readers of these newsgroups who have followed this libel campaign for 3 1/2 years will be interested in learning the identities of the Disinformation Agent AFAB Bullies when they are unmasked in court.
hm/pv: As for me, well -- if'n you be real nice I'll double my donation to the _Free bRay Fund_.
In The Spirit,
Rev. P. Villa, S.J.
*Free BRay Now!*
Do not let the INCARNATE TRVTH of ArkSpam® languish in jail! Pul-Eaze donate some corroded pennies, old socks, and/or canned meat byproducts to help Raymond Karczewski out of the terrible jam He s in. We owe Him that much, for He is Jesus's Brother...both a Maitreya nd a Christ: http://www.skepticult.org/digger/freebray.html
Or start baking Him a cake with a hacksaw blade in it.
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Media Unmasked
Following is an excerpt from my book on tape "Christs With Amnesia."
Fairness in broadcasting, fact or fiction? Let me tell you a story. Everything that will be said is true and can be documented. Only the names will be omitted to abide with this newspaper's policy. A Southern Oregon FM radio station with a talk show format caught my attention well over a year ago. I was drawn to it by its high energy, which I chalked up to the air of confusion and debate whipped up by its format. (This station has since established itself as headquarters for a national radio talk show network in our country.)
To the listeners of the station, I am known as Ray of Cave Junction. Little did I know that I had just stepped into the twilight zone of talk radio.
As my calls increased, I became less welcome to the talk show hosts; as they became more and more uncomfortable with questions that could not be easily parried through their cleverness. I soon learned the image of free speech was just that, an illusion. At one point I attempted to purchase advertising time on the station, but was refused with no reason given other than it was a station board of director's decision to do so. My advertising did reach the air after my wife called and embarrassed the station on the air while they were conducting a tirade against a Rogue Valley television station that had refused their advertising.
The day my ad went on, and continuing for the month's duration of the advertising period, the station created an ad of their own which they positioned adjacent to my ad. Their ad was made from select statements made by me, but taken out of context. The ad was designed specifically to ridicule and discredit me. Certainly not the way for a business to treat one of its customers.
Soon portions of my calls were censored through the use of several techniques. At times it was through the use of static noise blanking out a statement at a critical point; at other times, through the lowering of the volume at the control level so that parts of the statements could not be heard. On one such occasion this was followed by being cut off entirely while the host continued speaking as if I were still on the phone while putting his finishing spin on the subject, then closing by thanking me for my call long after I had been cut off.
Ultimately, my calls were refused altogether. All of these things were done with such expertise and finesse that it could not be detected by the listening audience. Finally, when my call was refused by the show's producer at the direction of the host, a member of the station's board of directors, I was effectively silenced; stopped from further communication altogether.
My wife called the show some twenty minutes later and exposed to the listening audience what had just happened.
* . .At that point, the talk show host, a member of the board of directors, in an attempt to bully my wife, threatened to expose damaging information about me if she persisted with the call. .*
My wife, shaken by the bullying tactics, was stunned. At my direction, my wife told the host to say what he was going to say—to air the statements. After several moments of silence, all the host could utter was, "That's it. I don't want to talk about it any longer." and cut her off the air. Too late—the slanderous innuendo had already been implanted in the minds of the listening audience, and I was now effectively silenced from responding directly to any further statements of that nature made at that level of the media. (This same tactic was used by another talk show host on the same station, another program, to another caller subsequent to my experience. Coincidental?)
On September 1, 1993, between 9 and 11 a.m., a woman (a regular caller known to the station as Barbara) called in identifying herself as a self-admitted Man-eater and spoke to one of the hosts, a self-admitted hypnotist. After engaging the hosts in a mutual admiration and reinforcing conversation, reflecting a clear identification and common goal, this is what the woman said, and I quote; WE HAVE THE POWER TO DESTROY SOMEONE ELSE'S CHARACTER BY CHOOSING THE RIGHT ACCUSATION THAT CANNOT BE PROVEN IN THIS LIFETIME. This comment was given assent by both hosts, one of whom was and is a major force behind the station and key person in the establishment of the subsequent nationwide network. One man said, "Absolutely, thank you."—the other uttered "Yes." Both men uttered approval of such a statement. This woman had articulated the exact technique that had been used in an attempt to silence me. I continued to listen, but heard no one respond to the statement and hosts' responses.
Have we become so inured to the psychological violence that is our daily fare, that we have joined the ranks of the blind and the dead as spoken of by the man Jesus? Wake up Southern Oregon! The next time you read about fairness in broadcasting, keep in mind—it works both ways. Remember my experience. The next time it might be you! (end of the original newspaper text)
This period of censorship lasted well over a year-and-a-half before I was able to return to any of the shows originating from that station. It came only at the intervention of the rather popular talk show host Bob White (Neale Donald Walsch, author of Conversations with God) who stood up against the radio station's policy by allowing my calls to come through. By the way, he is no longer employed by the station.
Note: Because this letter was originally published as a newspaper Letter to the Editor, particulars as to identity could not be given at that time. The station in question is KOPE FM located in Central Point Oregon.
The slandering host was David Masters, son of hypnotist Roy Masters. The other two cohosts handling the call regarding destruction of one's reputation were Roy Masters and cohost Jesse Peterson.
Statements contained therein are corroborated by recorded audio tapes of the shows. This may answer some of the questions posed by contributors to the Roy Masters Newsgroup who have asked why I post my articles on his group. I must admit, the frequency of my posts on the Roy Masters newsgroup can be traced to my radio experience with KOPE. rk.
Copyright © 1995 by Raymond Karczewski
The following libelous attacks arise from the keyboards of assorted anonymous government/media disinformation agents who, through disruption, intimidation, and character assassination control the flow of information on public Usenet Newsgroups/Forums
Dr. Postman
The people voted your attacks off Ray
Fri Aug 31 06:41:32 2001
Yet you want to violate their right of ownership. They clearly point out in their Forum Guidelines "The Service Provider reserves the right, but undertakes no duty, to review, edit, move, or delete any material provided for display or placed on the Service or its forums, in its sole discretion, without notice."
Other readers booted you with their alert button. How does it feel to be responsible for your own actions? Hell, isn't it?
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Anonymous
I'm not the one saying it is satanic
Thu Aug 30 19:18:53 2001
That's Ray's rap. I have nothing against the Bible: I believe it to be full of beauty and, at times, great wisdom. Ray is the one who damns it out of hand as mind control, then promptly sets himself up as a rival deity. And yes, I agree with you: at every moment, hubris and ignorance is and will be judged and condemned for what it is. It is Ray's principal sin. No man is Christ, and no man is God. That is the beginning of true wisdom and insight.
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Losing faith in American integrity
This is a sad commentary on our character
Fri Aug 31 07:47:01 2001
This is very true, unhappily. This penchant for "reinventing" ourselves, which seems to be the latest buzzword for lying your face off as your desires dictate, corrodes dignity, responsibility, and character. I for one am losing faith in the ability of people to tell the truth, stand by their words, and take responsibility for their actions.
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Observer of a Great Man and a Concerned American
Rights are The Meaning of Freedom of Speech
Fri Aug 31 13:48:59 2001
Raymond Karczewski has proven his Courage and his Right to Stand For What He Believes In, and to Speak For Just and Amenable Truths. Raymond Karczewski has proven his Moral Fortitude and his Perspicacity for the Meaning of Liberty, Freedom, and Truth. For anyone who tries to Pejorative, and to Dispraise Raymond Karczewski, and his Immutable Right to Free Speech and to be able to Infallibly Stand For What He Believes In, is a traitor to his fellow countrymen.
God Bless You Raymond Karczewski, and May You never let the Immitigable Denigrators of Truth and Liberty Ever Stand in Your Way, to Stand for What You Believe In, for You Have Proven that You Stand Unfailingly for Your County, and Your Fellow Man.
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Oregonian
When did Ray prove any of this?
Fri Aug 31 15:42:27 2001
What are you talking about? He ran away from court! He never did anything! There is no fortitude in running away and hiding. Hey, is this RAY???? Or maybe Anita?
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Anonymous
Ray is a kook and documentably dangerous
Fri Aug 31 15:40:43 2001
You obviously don't know this guy, have never met him, and don't live anywhere near him. You therefore never suffer any consequences of your ignorant, uninformed words. All you have to do is look at him for a few moments before he goes off on some insane, incoherent rant about how he is God. How easy it is to speak out of ignorance and never actually meet and inform yourself about what you're talking about! Whatever your own personal agenda and problems are, the facts are that Ray is a leech living off public money, and a verifiable psycho who threatens his neighbors for no reason whatsoever on a constant basis. I suppose if he came to your door armed, you'd then object, but the rest of us are fair targets? When he is made responsible for his actions, he runs and whines to strangers like you on the Internet who have their own personal and psychological problems, and ignorantly support him because they too are frustrated and angry. I'm just glad you kooks are few and far between in number. America is degraded by self-serving ignorance like this.
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What to make of this?
But on Ray's argument this is "satanic"
Thu Aug 30 14:21:34 2001
Ray's whole point seems to be that the Bible is "satanic" mind control, and HE is Christ. He further denounces any dissent at all from this vision of himself as God as some form of vast "disinformation" plot against him personally, and he turns over names and addresses automatically to the very government he attacks for (he hopes) criminal investigation and prosecution. The sum of his posts here has been that unless you think exactly as Ray does -- which is to say unless your mind is totally controlled in the way Ray wants it to be controlled -- you are an "AFAB/SKEPTICUL/Robot government/media/New World Order disinformation agent with a "satanic" agenda, and he will do what he must to punish you through government agencies. If so, how do these Biblical verses do anything except denounce you as a satanist? A final question: what does it mean about anyone who would look to another human being to play God for him?
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All this proves is you have severe mental problems
No one's freedom is threatened by this
Fri Aug 31 15:25:37 2001
All this proves is people make fun of you, and you have such severe emotional problems you can't get along with anyone else at all. Big deal. Your detractors have the same rights to free speech as you do. If you can't take a little criticism, stop spamming every forum you can find with your kooky-, self-aggrandizing insistence you're some sort of Christ. Your whining should embarrass you.
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Anti-Censor
Are you arguing these people have no right to speak?
Fri Aug 31 15:50:57 2001
What is this supposed to mean Ray? Are you suggesting that no one has a right to speak their mind if it is critical of you? That is obviously not the case. I realize you have a lot of problems getting people to accept your political and religious ideas, but you're not the only person who's ever had this problem, and throwing tantrums and demanding government investigations and prosecutions of anyone who disagrees with you is terribly unamerican. I cannot support the censorship you are demanding. Find a constructive way of dealing with your communication problems instead of demanding everyone else just shut up.
Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:06:47 -0700
(Impostor) Raymond Karczewski (3stooges@karkettlerwollmann.com)
Raymond Karczewski wrote:
AMERICANS --Those Who Threaten Your Freedoms Walk Amongst You -- WAKE UP!!! (LONG)!
LONG --- but worth reading if you are concerned enough to learn how your FREEDOMS are being stripped away from you. All that need be done now is for the FBI to connect the dots!!!
The FBI are "walking amongst us", Ray, if you catch my drift.
But don't worry, Ray.
Nobody's going to threaten your freeedom, unless you start acting like a real kooky asshole, posting crazy rants everywhere, and refuse to pay traffic fines and shit.
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Re: AMERICANS --Those Who Threaten Your Freedoms Walk Amongst You -- WAKE UP!!! (LONG)!
Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:25:02 -0700
"John Judy" (SPAMmegajudy@DONTSPAMMEhotmail.comSPAM)
(SNIP)
jj: So... People who recognize you as an insane old man are also threating me freedom? Sheesh, that's makes a lot of people! Ray, seriously, shouldn't you be dead by now?
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Can you clarify?
Mr. Karczewski, your position does seem conflicted
Fri Aug 31 16:27:41 2001
I too question your position because it seems conflicted to me. Perhaps you could clarify your logic?
On one hand, you insist on your right to free speech. This is correct. I do not agree with what you say, but I support your right to say it.
On the other, however, you equally insist that anyone who disagrees with you, or makes fun of you, should not only be stripped of their right to speak, but should also be subject to government harassment, FBI investigation, and criminal sanctions.
How do you reconcile these positions? If you have the right to say things others don't agree with, why don't others have the same right to say things you don't agree with? Further, you claim to hate the government and to be an anarchist, yet the first thing you do when you have personal problems with people is demand government intervention and sanctions against those people you don't like. This is why your position is impossible to take seriously, but perhaps I don't understand you. Any clarification?