Libel, Forgery, Identity Theft, and Fraud: The Internet, FBI, Congress and Media and the Parts They Play in the Disintegration of the US Constitution.

rk: Read the posts below.

rk: "Shipkey/Shipley" refers to Oscar Ray Shipley -- former Pacifica, Califonia Police Captain, former Eureka, California Police Chief and now-retired Medford, Oregon Chief of Police.

rk: "Nelson" refers to Mel Nelson -- former Pacifica, California Police Chief, now-retired Chief of Police of Livermore, California.)

rk: Is such vicious, conspiratorial, criminal conduct by Internet-prowling Government/Media sponsored/supported Disinformation Agent provocateurs really protected under the umbrella of our Constitutional Right to Free Speech?

rk: Perhaps it is time for the FBI to interview former Medford, Oregon Chief of Police Ray Shipley and former Pacifica and Livermore, California Chief of Police Mel Nelson to ascertain whether either had authored the following libelous articles on the Portland, Oregon-based Oregonian Newspaper-sponsored Town Square Forum.

rk: Does anybody see that by erecting an impenetrable Stone Wall of Silence around this Government/Media sponsored/supported Mind Control/Disinformation experiment upon the unwary computer-using American Public, the FBI, your US Senators and Congressional Representatives are responsible for the slow, incremental dissolution of our US Constitution and, as such, pave the way toward the enslavement of their own constituents under a "NEW WORLD ORDER"?

rk: All this is easily resolved, is it not? Compel the FBI to reveal its investigative findings on the Criminal Complaint filed by Raymond Karczewski with their Medford, Oregon field office on November 2nd, 1997.

rk: Call or write your Congressmen and/or sign the petition at http://www.PetitionOnline.com/RayNita1/petition.html

rk: Wake Up, America before it is too late!!!

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Re: CENSORED! (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:29:25 GMT

From: Shipley and Nelson (unknown)

More government conspiracies against you Ray? Just like in Pacifica 30 years ago. Still beating that delusional horse? It got you nothing but a reputation for pscyosis then, and it looks like you can't shake the mental illness decades later. By the way, Grace says hi.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: More government conspiracies against you Ray? (Shipley and Nelson)

Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:26:09 GMT

From: Get to a doctor and reclaim your life (unknown)

How could you let an easily treatable mental illness destroy your life for 30 years? Why has your family not acted to get you help? Have they been standing around watching you get sicker and sicker, and yet did nothing to help you regain your mind and health? Is your entire family as vicious as the messages you post here daily? Get to a doctor for Christ's sake and reclaim whatever is left of your life.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Shoring up your reputation Ray, just like in Pacifica?

Re: Raymond: Do you expect... (Not clear what you're trying to do here)

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 14:28:07 GMT

From: Law firm of Shipkey and Nelson (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Funny how history has a way of coming back to haunt you

Re: Shoring up your reputation Ray, just like in Pacifica? (Law firm of Shipkey and Nelson)

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 14:48:31 GMT

From: Reap the enmity you have spread Ray (unknown)

Reply

How many are aware of the issue of Winona Blevins, an 82 year old woman living alone in her paid-for $150,000 home in a Homeowner Association controlled subdivision in Texas.

According to the news broadcasts of the event, it seems that Mrs. Blevins, who lived alone in her home with her cat, paid her annual water and garbage service assessment/dues to her Homeowners Association to cover the assessment for two years. The Homeowners Association, however, refused to cash the check and apply it to her account because it did not amount to the exact amount of the annual bill (times 2 years) but did not bother to send the check back to Mrs Blevins to be reissued for the correct amount.

The Homeowner Association made no personal effort to contact Mrs. Blevins to advise her of the discrepancy in the amount of the check and the correct amount of the payment due. Instead, without notice, Mrs. Blevins was recently awakened at 7:30 am by a Texas Constable accompanied by a moving van and was evicted from her home with only a change of clothes and her cat.

All of her personal belongings were packed up in the moving van and stored. An eighty-two year old senior citizen not only was put out of her own home, a home which was already paid for in full, all taxes paid up to date, and having no other liens upon it, but she lost ALL of her personal belongings to boot. The $150,000 home was subsequently sold at auction by the Homeowners Association for $5,000.

What is the lesson to be learned in this modern day example of man's inhumanity to man? Why are Senior Citizens the favorite targets of exploitation? What is the moral to this story?

In one single action a traumatic lesson was delivered to millions of ready-made victims throughout this country, if not throughout this world. It is a blow delivered to the fragile egos of compensating ignoramuses who have been conditioned throughout life to live in fear and codependency hoping their authorities will protect them and not prey upon them in their time of need. These law abiding but broken spirited human beings have been beaten down into submission with negative conditionining.

They are those who have gone through life unable to deal with life at the subtle levels of consciousness, afraid to "rock the boat," to fight City Hall, to stand up to the power of a judicial system ruled by a legalese speaking "good ole boy" closed network of judges and lawyers.

Mrs. Blevins is one such "trusting soul." Where is her culpability in this matter? Where is the Justice we all expect in these matters? What is the root of evil which lies at the core of Mrs. Blevin's predicament? TWO WORDS!! Money and Rules.

Are not the money handlers (bankers) and the rulemakers (politicians/bureaucrats) the predators who perpetually circle overhead anticipating the feast which awaits them when the bodies of their victims lie cold and lifeless? Such is the actual, not fantasy nature of a corrupt society in the act of Redistribution of Wealth.

How many now reading this are able to stand up to the power of these soulless creditors who prey upon hapless, unwitting citizens in a credit based society?

How many are now able to survive such draconian measures by those in whom you have placed your trust? How many would recognize their culpability for their own self-destruction brought on by years of being pressured to follow the path of least resistance, the path which leads to the ditch which awaits the spiritually "blind who follow the blind."

Look again at the events surrounding the homelessness of Mrs Blevins. How would you fare were such foreclosures made upon your real and private property should this country of ours experience an major economic collapse? Yes, folks, this case is a forerunner of things to come in this country -- A country once called the "Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave."

Surely what has demonstrably bappened to Mrs. Blevins can happen to any one of you reading this. Perhaps even more easily/sooner than to a relatively debt-free, "Trusting" Senior Citizen.

Such travesties of justice can only happen in a society in decline. It cannot happen without the aide of an apathetic public which has been dumbed down, desensitized, conditioned to watch such injustices grow in our country and yet not be moved to arise as a collective force to put an end to such tyranny.

. Pay Attention, America -- BE AWARE that every single solitary person who finds himself/herself in deep debt to the credit card companies could well share the same fate as Mrs Blevins. How secure are you really?

Ever hear of debtor prisons? What do you think all those empty, waiting-to-be-filled FEMA relocation/concentration camps in a creditor society ruled by a cashless New World Order are all about? What makes you think that those who rule you through mind control, who control the money and economy, who control a legal system which no longer adheres to the tenets of our US Constitution, cannot pull the rug out from under your lives just as it has from Mrs. Blevins?

Sorry, America, it may already be TOO LATE FOR YOU TO WAKE UP!!!

NOW YOU KNOW WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICA!!

HELL, ISN'T IT? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT!!!

Reply

posted 05-03-2001 08:22 AM

Raymond Karczewski, (arkent@arkenterprises.com) wrote:

IP: 209.136.17 Snoop wrote:

s: > I appreciate this, the FORST post from Mr K which has for a topic something relevant to others!

rk: On the contrary, every one of my posts is relevant to others. Admittedly, my posts move toward deeper inquiry into the spiritual nature of man than to the superficial political level of man's societally conditioned consciousness. They cause discomfort to the hypnotically entranced, as they probe deeply into the conditioned consciousness of politically/religiously correct-thinkers. Waking up to the facts of *What IS* is not an easy thing for purposely dumbed-down ignoramuses/sheeple to do. It's tough for them to look into the Mirror of Truth and observe themselves as they really are, not as they think they are. But awaken they must, if they are to retain their freedom and sovereignty as spiritual human beings.

rk: That is why my posts have been removed from ALL of the USENET newsgroups and most of the forums that I have subscribed to through the years. At the present time my bulletin board at http://www.arkenterprises.com/dialchst.htm and three other forums are the only places on the Internet where my articles are allowed to stand uncensored. This forum being but one of them. Now ask yourselves, -- What's wrong with that picture?

rk: For example, the original article I wrote about Mrs. Blevins (#34497) earlier this morning was immediately removed after it was posted it to Portland, Oregon's leading newspaper's (The Oregonian) Town Square forum at http://www.oregonlive.com/forums/townsquare/

rk: Americans, this is your media in action. Are you paying attention? Is the purpose of Media to disseminate news or to control the news? Is it to illuminate or to darken the consciousness of its readers? Is its purpose to liberate or to enslave?

rk: What is it that the media doesn't want the American People to know? Here is an issue which strikes at the very heart of the security of our people, an issue which targets the vulnerable amongst us. Why has it been removed from a public forum whose stated purpose is open discussion/dialogue of events that affect our *theoretical* status as a free people?

rk: If the content of that article is not important and/or news to millions of AMERICANS who THINK they live in a free country and DREAM they are secure in their property ownership, I would ask you -- What is?

rk: The plain and simple fact is that almost all of the Internet newsgroups and forums are inundated with silly, inane, busy-work "talk abouts" who impotently bemoan their fate while utilizing gossip amongst themselves to puff up their inert, do-nothing egos. My articles do not tarry at that peripheral level of superficial consciousness. They cut to the chase and demonstrate in real time, the mind control techniques used to control us. The question remains, who amongst you are aware enough to recognize this?

rk: By the way, this article will be posted to the Town Square Forum. Why not stop by the forum yourself to gauge the level of intelligence expressed by its usual contributors and also to see whether the administrators allow this article (#34524) to stand.

rk; >> "Ever hear of debtor prisons? What do you think all those empty, waiting-to-be-filled FEMA relocation/concentration camps in a creditor society ruled by a cashless New World Order are all about?"

s: > A fair question! Yeah folks, what DO you think they are all about?

rk:.>> "What makes you think that those who rule you through mind control, who control the money and economy, who control a legal system which no longer adheres to the tenets of our US Constitution, cannot pull the rug out from under your lives just as it has from Mrs. Blevins?"

s: > I bet the po' li'l ol' LADY was as secure in her safety from atrtack as the average Sheeple imagine themselves to be.

s: > Total conformity by her and it is all shot to hell because of a digital error in a paper transfer of 'wealth'.

s:> Do any of y'all sheeple ACTUALLY 'OWN' ANYTHING'? pROVE IT IT A POST HERE!!

Reply

Raymond Karczewski writes:

rk: The following post was observed on the Town Hall Forum of Congressman Asa Hutchinson, Arkansas Congressman from the 3rd District.

rk: I, Raymond Karczewski, personally filed a criminal complaint with the Medford, Oregon field office of the FBI on Nov. 2nd, 1997. The core of the complaint to be investigated -- "Conspiracy to Libel" which gave rise to the larger issue of Government/media, sponsored/supported mind control/disinformation experimentation being conducted upon unwary users of the Internet.

rk: Since that filing in 1997, despite its continuous, high profile public airing on USENET newsgroups, an unyielding STONE WALL of SILENCE has been erected by government and media officials and remains intact to this very day. Not a word of the complaint filed on Nov 2nd, 1997 has been *leaked* to the public by the White House, Congress, FBI and the Media. In the meantime, my persistence in holding our government responsible for its inactions and malfeasance has been met with a "behind-the-scenes technical Black Bag, Dirty Tricks campaign" of hacking, blocking, forgery, and outright censorship/removal of my articles from USENET newsgroups. At present my articles are limited to appearing on three non-USENET forums (this being one of them) and my bulletin board at http://www.arkenterprises.com/dialchst.htm

rk: I invite ALL who are concerned about the unrelenting, incremental stripping away of our Constitutionally guaranteed Rights and Freedoms in this country by our present errant government/bureaucratic structure and wish to take back control of our government SHORT of a "BLOODY REVOLUTION" to visit my bulletin board and carefully read the articles your government and media DO NOT WANT YOU EXPOSED TO.

rk: The solution to restoring our U.S. Constitution and our lost freedom is found on those pages. Greater rewards, however, await those who have the energy, insight and awareness to SEE and GRASP the deeper SPIRITUAL ESSENCE contained within the writings.

rk: A genuine opportunity exists for the mind controlled masses to put an end to the POWER of Intellectual domination over their carefully indoctrinated but limited consciousness by the Satanic worshipping *Few* who have ruled the *Many* since the Dawn of Civilization.

rk: But to do that AMERICA must wake up from its political/religious hypnotic trance state. Our Country is in crisis. The crisis exists on two levels, Spiritual and Political. Our Country does not have THREE DECADES to wait for the VEIL OF SILENCE to be lifted by the FBI as depicted in the case below.

rk: May I suggest those interested in seeing that our National Sovereignty is maintained under our U.S. Constitution visit my petition at http://www.PetitionOnline.com/RayNita1/petition.html Observe how it has been *trashed* by the very Government/Media sponsored/supported disinformation agents who are the subject of the FBI investigation.

rk: See the viciousness, the ploy of inanity, the purposeful misdirection away from the subject of the petition by these anonymous poster(s) for what it ACTUALLY IS. Face such psychological intimidation squarely, courageously, undauntedly. Then affix your signature to the petition.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IP: 209.136.175.6 Cato wrote:

posted 05-04-2001 08:43 PM

c: (so that means what they are gathering here will not be used until 2036.)

FBI withheld key bombing evidence

The Associated Press

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. - For three decades, the FBI failed to disclose it had hundreds of hours of tape recordings and other evidence that could help convict former Ku Klux Klansmen in the 1963 church bombing that killed four black girls.

When that information finally came out in court in recent weeks and clinched the conviction of ex-Klansman Thomas Blanton Jr. on Tuesday, Alabama prosecutors who first broke open the long-dormant case in the 1970s were outraged.

`That is the most stunning revelation of this thing,'' said former Alabama Assistant Attorney General John Yung, who in 1977 helped send ex-Klansman Robert ``Dynamite Bob'' Chambliss to prison for the bombing. ``I think it's shocking that someone sat on that evidence all those years.''

Among the FBI evidence that had remained secret since the mid-1960s: secret tape recordings of Blanton talking about planning ``the bomb'' and the testimony of Mitchell Burns, a former Klansman and paid FBI informant who recorded other conversations.

``What excuse can the FBI have for allowing Mr. Blanton to go free for 24 years with this smoking-gun evidence hidden in its files?'' former Alabama Attorney General Bill Baxley wrote in a commentary Thursday in The New York Times. Baxley reopened the church bombing probe in the 1970s and convicted Chambliss.

FBI spokesman Craig Dahle said there was no easy answer for the agency's failure to hand over everything it had years earlier. But he denied the FBI deliberately delayed justice.

`I think it is wrong to assert there was any effort to block anything,'' Dahle said.

Intentionally or not, then-FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover prevented a quick trial in 1965 when he concluded that Birmingham's racial climate meant a guilty verdict was highly unlikely. Juries in Birmingham were all white at the time, and the police force included Klan sympathizers.

It was just a different time,'' Dahle said.

Also, he said, the FBI has a policy against revealing the identity of confidential informants like Burns unless they agree to go public. And agents may have been leery about sharing the information with state and local police forces, which were known to have Klan sympathizers.

As for the tapes secretly made in Blanton's kitchen in 1964, computers were used to enhance the murky recordings and help decipher the voices for the jury at his trial -- technology unavailable in the 1960s and extremely time-consuming in the 1970s when Baxley was pursuing the church bombers.

The tapes were only ``moderately intelligible'' without enhancement, said Anthony Pellicano of Forensic Audio Laboratory, the Los Angeles company that performed the work.

But the FBI did not let Baxley know the tapes even existed in the 1970s. It wasn't until the latest investigation began that Baxley found out about the tapes and the informant. Yung said he learned of the long-secret evidence as the Blanton trial unfolded.

They denied having any more evidence than what they gave us, and it was hard enough getting what we got,'' Yung said.

With Hoover running the FBI, the case was closed in 1968 without any charges. The file of FBI evidence against Chambliss, Blanton and others sat dormant.

Hoover died in 1972, but his successors also left the tapes and other evidence in storage. Finally, Rob Langford, the agent in charge of the Birmingham FBI office, decided to reopen the church bombing probe after meeting with black ministers in 1993.

FBI agents spent months going through the old evidence and found the tapes and written reports compiled by Burns. The tapes went from storage to experts who enhanced their quality and then to prosecutors. U.S. Attorney Doug Jones was deputized to handle the state case, and Burns was brought in to testify before the grand jury that indicted Blanton last year. ``No matter what J. Edgar Hoover said and no matter what his reasons, the FBI and the agents that were on the ground ... did an absolutely incredible job,'' Jones said after the verdict.

Baxley, in his op-ed piece in the Times, said ``rank-and-file FBI agents working with us were conscientious and championed our cause.'' Without naming anyone, he said his disgust was with ``those in higher places who did nothing.''

Reply

"You can kill a thousand; you can bring an end to life; you cannot kill an idea." --Acting Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres on the assassination of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin (1922-1995)

The above statement was recently made at the public ceremony following the assassination of Israel's Yitzhak Rabin. Look at the above statement quietly. Watch the responses that arise within you against the backdrop of silence. You will learn a great deal about how your mind has been trained to react to such rhetoric.

Now ask yourselves what is more important: Is it thought, or the author/creator of such thought that is important? You are the thinker of your thoughts. Without a thinker, does thought have existence? So now ask the question of yourself again. I can assure you that if the instant reaction of your conditioned judgments does not interfere with the silent looking, all but a few diehards (blind believers) will find the answer to their second question will be different from their first response.

What is the reality of Truth? How is Truth interfered with by this illusory psychological mechanism called mind?

An actual event occurs. In the flash of a moment "IT IS " manifested, then it is gone forever, never to return again. It is over, it cannot be repeated, it cannot be called back. In less than the fleeting blink of an eye *actuality* existed in the eternal moment. The moment having passed can now be labeled in consciousness and made into an idea. It is named, given a word, a symbol which represents an otherwise indefinable holistic essence. Such an idea will exist only if it is infused with one's personal energy through an act of personal belief based in one's memory. Since such formulated thought comes into being only after the moment-based fact has passed, it clearly can be said to be "dead". The living moment has passed and has been replaced by a dead illusion, a reflection, a substitution which changes one's fact-based, living reality into an aftermoment, thought-based "reality" of illusion. (Gives a whole new meaning to the myths of Jesus raising the dead, doesn't it?)

This thought based reality has been characterized in the Judeo-Christian conditioning process as man's "Fall from Grace". It is based in the altered state of consciousness that is currently called Hypnosis. Simply stated, it is a reality based in Mind Control. It is an altered state of consciousness wherein the image is mistaken for the fact.

This thought-based dualistic reality is, without exception, the petty "god" of all civilized societies. It is the false image that is mistaken for Truth and worshipped by a fragmented, conditioned mind that cannot transcend its own limitedness. It is the dualistic structure upon which all rules, laws, and guidelines governing the masses in a civilized setting are based. It is the cause of the human family to be divided by cultural differences and customs. Such divisions occur through the separative illusions of Race, Nationality, Political and Religious affiliations, family, sex, on and on and on. The mind of civilized man has a boundless creative talent for establishing divisions at the minutest of levels, even down to the you and me, us and them dualistic relationship. Such are the means by which the masses may be directed and controlled by their rulemakers, their leaders. It is the introduction of conflict, pain and suffering into the lives of those who are trapped, confined, and yes, even condemned to live and be ruled by the unbearable pressures imposed upon them by their "other-directed" minds. It is HELL.

One must be trained from near infancy for such conditionings to take hold. Once the conditioning is in place, it can never be allowed to be examined by the thinker, nor can it be allowed any lapse of time without the use of intermittent repetition or reinforcement impressions to rejuvenate the image in one's mind. That is why the educational system and public media play such an important part in societies. They are the propaganda arm which enslaves men through the use of positive images while applying pressure, fear, and uncertainty to the psyche of the conditioned masses.

That is why politicians/media have such a vested interest in never letting us forget events which would best serve mankind were they to be forgotten. These mindcontrollers must continue their hold over the mind with their seemingly helpful expert suggestions, even to interfering with the simplest of one's daily decisions. It is designed to engender doubt of one's own competency and favors instead, establishing a codependent reliance upon "outer-directed" expert advice. It is all done to create the illusion of permission (privilege/licensing) and to sustain authority over the codependent, suggestible entity.

Without this constant effort to create self doubt, they would have nothing to exploit. They must also infuse us with "pride" to ensure their continued link of control. There must be celebrations. There must be memorials. "We must remember the Alamo." "We must remember the Holocaust." "We must remember Pearl Harbor." The leaders must occupy the attention of the masses with the silliest of celebration/recognition days, weeks and months just to perpetuate necessary political, religious, business, and social links and duties.

The letting go of these ideas in the *act of forgetting* is the only way to Peace. That is why in other articles I have referred to the process of civilized behavior as being "Bassackward."

One cannot fight for peace. For peace to be, conflict must cease. Where then is fight to be found? One merely has to look at the outcome of one's actions to determine the degree of contradiction operating in their life. If your ideas promise you freedom while through your manifested actions born of such ideas, you are digging yourself in deeper, you are not paying attention to the TEACHER that LIFE is. You are living in a state of contradiction, and that is just where your exploiters want you to be. That is how power is secured. That is how the "redistribution of wealth" takes place. That is how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Few humans have been free from such tyranny of the mind. Those who have come and gone, who have brought their message of peace and understanding to their world, have been "persecuted and reviled" in their time on this earth. Although their messages were passed on, the mind-manipulating word wielders who dictate the writing of the history books have corrupted the words of the peacemakers through their own interpretations, interpretations which best suit their prevailing agenda. This has gone on from generation to generation and, as such, the Satanic (Opposer) Power of a dualism-based Hell has remained unbroken and in effect to this very moment. Each of us are responsible for our own destiny. We must retrieve our lost sovereignty as human beings and Children of God through the act of self-understanding. Only then can Peace Be. Such is the Truth behind the statement uttered some 2,000 years ago -- ..."and the meek shall inherit the earth."

As to the leading statement made by Shimon Peres, "You can kill a thousand; you can bring an end to life; you cannot kill an idea." -- I say, the Hell you can't, just forget it!

Reply

Note: The following article (#34746) was removed shortly after it was posted earlier on this date to the "Town Square Forum" see: http://www.oregonlive.com/forums/townsquare/

Would the revelations below qualify as *news* to a reasonable person? Is the purpose of the News Media to DISSEMINATE news or to SHAPE/CONTROL it?

I invite all interested in determining the Truth of that question for themselves, to visit the Town Square site and observe what the *Town Square Censors,* sponsored by the *Oregonian,* one of Oregon's largest daily newspapers chose to leave standing. Perhaps now it can be seen why the simple, direct Truth of a Christ poses such a threat to the momentum of the NEW WORLD ORDER and its Satanic realm of Mind Control.

All who live life filtered through the Satanic (Opposer) dualistic realm of Intellect are subjects of HELL -- BAR NONE!

Pick a side, any side. It matters not what side of the dualistic conceptually-driven realm you select -- YOU remain but a mere corrupted fragment of the WHOLE, guided and controlled by OTHER equally corrupted fragments of the WHOLE, attacking and being attacked by those who hold to neverending OPPOSING viewpoints.

HELL, ISN'T IT?

GOD IS WHOLE. TRUTH IS WHOLE. LIFE IS WHOLE. BALANCE IS WHOLE!!

ALL of the ABOVE are HOLISTIC -- in other words, NONDUALISTIC in VIBRATION!

When a man who proclaims that He is "IN THIS WORLD (the world ruled by the Satanically driven Intellect) BUT NOT OF IT" -- When He says that He "...IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE," He is expressing to ALL an wholistic TRUTH, an ESSENCE which cannot be comprehended by the superficial fragmented realm of mere Intellectualism. He is telling ALL who *hear* that He is an WHOLISTIC (HOLY) human being, a TRUTH-BASED human being, a BALANCED human being, He is telling you He IS CHRIST!!

He does not *TALK ABOUT* the MYTH of "Christ" -- that knowledge-based Satanic seduction which is believed in by millions and millions of Satan worshipping, mind-controlled, spiritually blind believers. He *SPEAKS OF* the actual STATE OF BEING that is BALANCE, that is the NONDUALISTIC WHOLE -- well beyond the power and grasp of the OPPOSING FRAGMENTS which BATTLE endlessly in their fruitless attempts to masquerade and portray their own FRAGMENTATION as being the WHOLE.

Having expressed that in the inherently flawed venue of language which inevitably serves the Satanic (Dualistic/Opposer) Intellect as the source of confusion when heard by UNBALANCED, conditioned, Intellectual, mysticism ruled, fragmented IGNORAMUSES who've readily given up their GOD-GIVEN AWARENESS in return for the Spiritually Sightless realm of THINKING, OF UNAWARENESS steeped in BLIND BELIEF, whom of you understand another who would express the simple Truth -- I AM CHRIST. ARE YOU?

Reply

To my blind and spiritually ignorant Brothers and Sisters, I ask you to look into yourselves as you relate to this Establishment-promoted political atmosphere which surrounds Waco, Ruby Ridge, and Oklahoma City.

Pay attention to the insanity of a country's degraded populace as it attempts to void its guilt by projecting it upon the shoulders of one man -- Timothy McVeigh.

The plain and simple fact is that Tim McVeigh IS A SOLDIER.

Tim McVeigh did what SOLDIERS are TRAINED by their own COUNTRIES to do --- KILL!!

Who amongst you are capable of discerning the bottom line purpose of a soldier is that of either KILL OR BE KILLED!

Why is KILLING in times of war (redistribution of wealth and population control devices) by trained individuals considered by a fear-driven, mind controlled, conditioned public to be POSITIVE, GOOD, GLORIOUS and HEROIC, yet EVIL, INSANE, and CRIMINAL when the same individual acts according to his training in a *personal perception* of a time of nondeclared war; i.e., PATRIOTIC REVOLUTION?

Look if you will at the unbalanced, fear-laden sentiments being expressed in the TV, Radio Broadcasts and newspaper Media toward Tim McVeigh. Look also at the directed unbridled vicious, bloodthirsty comments made on these Internet newsgroups/forums by so called "NORMAL" law abiding citizens, many of whom consider Tim McVeigh to be the epitome -- the personification -- of EVIL.

Is Tim McVeigh EVIL?

If so, then ALL who are subject to the dualistic conditioning of Mind Control are equally EVIL.

Tim McVeigh is a trained SOLDIER.

What excuse is there for the rest of you on these newsgroups/forums who promote such hate?

Would it not be interesting to take another look at their present conditioned view of the world, to observe these same, average, so-called "law abiding," civilized citizens who so readily rush out to condemn another as EVIL, while they ignore their own presently-unfolding, violent, conditioned "EVIL" momentum being allowed to continue unabated in this present corrupt, "stimulus-response" reinforced, fear-based society? Given enough time, perhaps you folks will wake up to see yourselves as you ACTUALLY ARE, and not as you THINK you are.

The simple fact is: Guns don't KILL. Knives don't KILL. Clubs don't KILL. Rocks don't KILL.

EVIL (Corrupted Intelligence) KILLS!!!

In such an insane society, hell-bent for REVOLUTION, where does one start in opening the eyes of the blind and the ignorant to the EVIL within?

Reply

As of Feb 23rd, 2001, my articles no longer can be found on the USENET newsgroups and/forums to which I have SUBSCRIBED in the past.

They have been CENSORED!!

Here are some Internet public discussion forums which have censored my articles. All but one of these forums have censored my articles without comment and have removed them from access to their readership. Read the exception below (BANNED IN BEND). The actual articles which have led to such censorship may be read on the pages of my bulletin board: http://www.arkenterprises.com/dialchst.htm

After reading the articles, ask yourself why my writings pose such a threat to the Status Quo!

My writings have been censored on:

USENET newsgroups

Google Archives http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search

MSNBC Religion & Ethics Forum http://bbs.msnbc.com/bbs/msnbc-faith/index.asp

MSNBC Political Forum http://bbs.msnbc.com/bbs/msnbc-politics/index.asp

NEO-TECH Forums http://www.neo-tech.com/front/

Medford Oregon Mail Tribune Newspaper Forum http://www.mailtribune.com/

Oregonian Newspapaer Town Square Forum; http://www.oregonlive.com/forums/townsquare/

**Bendnet Electronic Community Forum http://www.bend.com/bendnet/index.php

*** Friends of Liberty International Discussion Board (Patriot Movement) http://www.friendsofliberty.com

** Subject: Banned in Bend

Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:37:28 -0800

Raymond Karczewski writes:

BANNED IN BEND!!

After being invited by "Bendnet Electronic Community" on Sun, 19 Mar 2000 to join their online Talk Forum and encouraged by their eCommunity Director Samantha Dahl, to start up my own discussion Forum regarding Spirituality, such a moderated forum opened on Tues. March 21 2000.

After submitting the following two articles to start off; i.e., "Supreme Intelligence: The True Estate of Man" and Re: "The Spiritual Express ( See "Re: Contact (Raymond Karczewski"), without warning all traces of my input and forum were removed.

Here is what BENDNET'S CEO's wife and bend.com's eCommunity Director said:

Ray...

"The powers that be said no to your forum. Their thoughts are to keep the focus of the baord local and non controversial. I apologize for wasting your time and hope you know that I personally regret this decision. Take care and good luck to you Ray. "

Samantha

*** As in the case with BENDNET, although I was personally invited via email by Shonda Ponder, Editor in Chief of FRIENDS OF LIBERTY INTERNATIONAL, to contribute editorials to the FLI website, when my articles regarding Organized Christianity and its mind control impact upon unaware Christian folk struck a nerve, my editorials were no longer welcome nor were they accepted. I continued to post such editorials upon the FLI web site public forum until they, too, were removed without a trace.

As any perceptive person can see, my posts are "neither THIS nor THAT.

They do not support the dualistic view of conditioned thought which has made life on this planet a HELL ON EARTH.

It has been said that "...narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:14

That "narrow way" is the way OF nondualistic BALANCE -- OF TRUTH.

It has also been said, "...broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:" Matt 7:13

Who amongst you are sufficiently free from the clutter of your religious conditioning to grasp the universal essence of such Truth without being enslaved to the parochial letter of the word? Who amongst you is able to walk the "narrow way" of TRUTH, to see the events of your daily life with such simplicity?

Those of you possessed of a serious nature, please read quietly the articles on my bulletin board. Therein lies the secret of bringing to an end the momentum of the NEW WORLD ORDER, the IMF, the Federal Reserve, the IRS, the usury-fed credit system of the modern day "moneychangers" (the bankers), and the present corrupt government which no longer follows our U.S. Constitution. It heralds the end of the Satanic power of the few over the many which has enslaved man since the earliest of Civilizations.

ALL of this is possible without engaging in a bloody revolution.

However, NONE of this is possible UNLESS you WAKE UP, even for an INSTANT, from your HYPNOTIC TRANCE!

Reply

Kurt (kas24@worldnet.att.net) wrote:

k: Timmy is NOT a soldier. He is a coward and a felon. If he wanted to be a martyr so badly, when he delivered the explosives to the Murrah building in the Ryder truck, all he had to do is NOT GET OUT! To call him a trained soldier, doing what soldiers are supposed to do, is a slap in the face of all who so proudly served and defended our country in various conflicts that we had no control of. To kill innocent civilians in a viscious attack on a non-military installation, with no tinge of conscious, is the act of a coward, not a hero. I would give all I own for the pleasure of giving him a ride on the needle by my own hand. Even this is too good for him. It will be like watching some person take a nap. This is not an execution. An execution is burning hair and flesh, choking on poisonous gas, and the grotesque expressions of fear and terror on the face of the condemned. May Timmy rot in Hell for his cowardly acts. God bless those who will send him there.............

Kurt MM, SDeM, PMC

rk: My suggestion to you would be to reread what you have expressed in this post, then ask yourself what makes you any more or less a KILLER IN SPIRIT than the man you have chosen to project your "conditioned, pent up" hatred upon.

rk: Although unwittingly, you have indeed provided a service to the world in this article. You have exposed to all who would read your words the actual corrupt spirit of damn near all repressed civilized human beings who hide their seething, conflicted, vicious distorted spirit of a "potential" KILLER behind their everyday, hypocritical, positive-imaged masks.

rk: As to your naive comment about " To kill innocent civilians in a viscious attack on a non-military installation, with no tinge of conscious,..." and/or the killing of innocent women and children during wartime, ever hear of "Mai Lai?"

rk: All you have managed to display in this rather ignominious response of yours is your own ignorance and latent "KILLER SPIRIT." What remains for such potential to be transformed into the realm of the actual is for the mind controller(s) of government and media to push your BUTTONS. How are they doin???

rk: Hell, isn't it?

The following libelous attacks arise from the keyboards of assorted anonymous government/media disinformation agents who, through disruption, intimidation, and character assassination control the flow of information on public Usenet Newsgroups/Forums

No. I am against violence and terrorism.

Re: He signs his name What's your problem? (Jimmy Brown )

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 12:44:42 GMT

From: You're ignorant: meet Ray for God's sake (unknown)

If you want to defend Ray, at least have the minimum intelligence to meet and talk to him first. You are suporting someone who has a long history of violence mental illness, child abuse, gambling addiction, and fraud. I don't give a hot damn what you support in your life, but I have the right to not favor the murder and abuse of children, or Ray's threats of armed insurrection in the streets. I strongly advise you to inform yourself before launching further attacks. It will take you all of five minutes to realize what you're championing here: his psychosis is immediately palpable, and he has threatened eveyone he knows. You're next man: at least have the guts to take the threats and then defend his right to harm you and your family. That is if you have the nerve to do so, which I sincerely doubt. Come to Cave Junction and realize what you've sided with here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you don't live near Ray you can dismiss him easily.

Re: Let me get this straight (You're both idiots)

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:02:16 GMT

From: Ray's threats are no computer game (unknown)

What about those of us who can't get away? I realize this guy seems like a huge Internet joke, and that it's impossible to take what he says seriously if you're not exposed to his behavior in person. The problem is Ray is real, he really does hate all of humanity, and has gone way out of his way to put everyone one notice that he's a dangerously unstable mental patient who has every intention of eventually acting on his threats against others. I think we're better off having Ray rant in cyber-space than out in the streets with weapons attacking people. But perhaps you should actually meet him and talk to him for a few minutes: that would clarify the problem at once.

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Raymond Karczewski! Get some sleep for God's sake!

Re: Town Square (New Admin)

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 11:21:28GMT

From: Your posts are like dog dump on thefloor (unknown)

Do you stay up every night all night posting screeds instead of trying to restore mental balance? Why are your s**t posts here every morning like a dog dump all over the floor?

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Wishes for Raymond Karczewski & Tim McVeigh

Re: Re: Dualism: The Triumph of Logic over Desire (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 11:26:48 GMT

From: Nitecrawler7 (unknown)

It's really too bad that you weren't here in OKC a week after the bombing. Dead humans have a unique smell, especially if they are buried under hundreds of tons of smashed concrete and mangled rebar. The smell reached all the way to the freeway, which is almost a mile from the site. If McVeigh was a soldier, he turned traitor to his oath when he lit the fuse. Real justice would be to take a turn of det cord around his waist, set it off, then drop a hundred tons of freeway rubble on him from a hundred feet up, so he could identify with his victims just before all that concrete squashed him like the cockroach he is. Lethal injection is too good for the likes of McVeigh, it's far too merciful a death.

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Your cyber-masturbation

Re: Dualism: The Triumph of Logic over Desire (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 12:03:50 GMT

From: Leave off your loon on the street act (unknown)

Raymond, there are so many REAL problems in the world you can work to end, instead of thrashing around trying to make your delusions of grandeur and persecution into anything remotely worthy of interest. Let the psychosis go Ray, and take up a REAL cause, only leave your uncontrolled threats and rage at home. You will do nothing positive with what life you have left if you allow mental illness to eat away every last part of you. Help someone, do something worthwhile, and leave your disgusting self-indulgence behind. It makes you a gross parody of a spiritual, politically aware human being, and no better than the loon raving on the street corner.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So apparently you believe

Re: Interesting Not one us responding has the guts of Raymond (Noen of us will post his name/email)

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 13:02:06 GMT

From: What is going on in Oregon? (unknown)

threats and violence are A-O.K. as long as the person issuing them signs his name? On that logic you must support any number of crimes against humanity, as long as you have some name attached to them (Tim McVeigh, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot: we know their names too, but does that make what any of them did in their lives acceptable to you)? Does a mere name give perpetrators some sort of integrity in your opinion -- you don't care at all about what they actually do, as long as you can see a name? Well, content does matter, and an exhibitionist putting his name to threats and psychosis does not make them acceptable.

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No triumph here for you Raymond

Re: Dualism: The Triumph of Logic over Desire (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 13:46:11GMT

From: No facts, no evidence, just rage. (unknown)

Just answer the questions put to you then, if you can. Ignoring them years after year simply shows ever more dramatically how ethically and intellectually bankrupt you truly are. If you have evidence, facts, **anything at all** to support your angry accusations of global robot conspiracies against you just produce them then and be done with it! If you can't, why doesn't it occur to you that you've been done in by your own overweaning emotional need to think you're God? Every post only underscores more disturbed and potentially dangerous your constant threats are. I sincerely hope you end up institutionalized before you finally carry out your threats.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ray is not "disgruntled." He's f**king dangerous.

Re: Nope, Ramblin Ray just won't take his eye test.... (Bert)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 19:33:16 GMT

From: He may well be a terrorist in the making (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why aren't you with your children today? What happened?

Re: Dualism: The Triumph of Logic over Desire (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 18:18:26 GMT

From: What did you & Anita do to them? (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Would YOU go anywhere near this creep?

Re: Why aren't you with your children today? What happened? (What did you & Anita do to them?)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 18:47:37 GMT

From: I can't even imagine this guy's past (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No Ray. You are the failed lawyer wannabe.

Re: Dualism: The Triumph of Logic over Desire (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 18:22:51 GMT

From: Lied about that like you did about every (unknown)

You're the one who claimed he went to law school straight from high school, when it's painfully obvious you don't even begin to have the intellectual and cognitive skills to survive even the first year of legal training. And you're attacking others because you yourself failed professionally and personally? Look into that Mirror of TRVTH Ray: everything about you is abject misery and failure, and your threats of violence only make your lack of intelligence and moral character dramatically obvious for all the world to see.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You bore the man's argument out beautifully.

Re: Dualism: The Triumph of Logic over Desire (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 18:46:57 GMT

From: Such a willing butt of every joke! (unknown)

Do you not even realize that you are the willing butt of every joke? If you want to be a philosopher so badly, first get some basic education. Your grandiose attempts at cowing people into submission through insults and threats only makes you looks like the stupified, uneducated dolt you are.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ray exults in the blood of children. What does he care?

Re: Happy Easter Ray (Remember the dead of your hero's bombing)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 18:24:20 GMT

From: Oregon sure knows how to breed them (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raymond, you dishonor your mother with your hate

Re: Happy Easter Ray (Remember the dead of your hero's bombing)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 19:06:15 GMT

From: Sorry she gave the world such disease (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pure dripping malice. I hope you burn in hell.

Re: Tim McVeigh: A Human Sacrifice to the EVIL (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 17:02:17 GMT

From: Glad to see you so miserablein your hate (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

He already is. Never seen such violent psychosis.

Re: Pure dripping malice. I hope you burn in hell. (Glad to see you so miserablein your hate)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 17:50:18 GMT

From: Couldn't happen to a more vilepsychopath (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The only "potential killer" here is you Ray.

Re: Tim McVeigh: A Human Sacrifice to the EVIL (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 17:11:33 GMT

From: Your threats will land you in jail (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You're a gutless worm to advocate the massacre of kids

Re: Tim McVeigh: A Human Sacrifice to the EVIL (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 17:15:11 GMT

From: You are criminally insane. (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was a soldier & soldiers don't kill innocent children

Re: Tim McVeigh: A Human Sacrifice to the EVIL (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 18:07:47 GMT

From: You are a craven& self-indulgent assh**e (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks God for Ray. Psychos like him killed off the

Re: Tim McVeigh: A Human Sacrifice to the EVIL (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 18:25:38 GMT

From: militia movement. Polish it off Ray! (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I dunno. I can see this guy showing up on the news

Re: Nah. Ray's so impotent he can't deal with real people (That's why he's always here.)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 21:25:04 GMT

From: Marginalized kooks kill every day (unknown)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So how long until you decide humanity itself must die?

Re: Tim McVeigh: A Human Sacrifice to the EVIL (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 18:04:49 GMT

From: What the hell are you thinking??? (unknown)

Your posts have made it clear you're one of the legions who've somehow come to the conclusion they're God. The difference seems to be that your colleagues are content with self-perceived superior wisdom and grace, while you spend all your time hating and threatening people who don't accept your holiness. So let me ask you: given your posts in support of killing children, how long will it be until you decide that the whole world must die in its sinfulness, and that you, as self-proclaimed God, must carry out the killing? What the hell are you thinking posting crap like this to strangers on the Internet?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So ignore all the news stories and evaluate the situation

Re: Tim McVeigh: A Human Sacrifice to the EVIL (Raymond Karczewski)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 18:53:40 GMT

From: Bert (bert@practicegoodmannersandtheworldsmiles.com)

...for yourself. With no prior knowlege, you learn of a former servicemembers violent act against an official government agency, it's people, and it's property. What would your assessment be? That perhaps, the man had 'lost it', and decided to start engaging in freelance fratricide as it were? Usually, societies tend to frown on those who turn against their neighbors, especially in these more 'peaceful' modern times.

I personally believe that, in addition to taking the most cowardly and heinous route to his goal, that despite his badge of 'extra-specialness', McVeigh wasn't really all that bright. He may have mistakenly believed that what he was about to do was in the name of whatever sacred cause he thought it would advance, but it is interesting to note that all he has managed to accomplish besides completely alienating himself from all the wannabe separatists is to give the various branches of our system ample cause for alarm and concern, and additionally plausible justification to reinforce and enhance security on a grand scale. Effectively, he has managed to drive a larger wedge in the already unacceptable government/people gap, thereby exacerbating an already negative state of affairs vis a vis constitutional rights, freedom of information, public access to public officials, and the whole ballyhoo associated with it. Nice going, timmy, another cartrige for the other foot?

No one, including you, ray, seems to quite grasp the fact that in this democratic society, you wield all the power in the world to avail yourself of the assistance, aid, and patience of anyone in government that you might choose to reasonably have discourse with. That is why they are called 'public servants', although it is not unimaginable that several of them might mistakenly believe that they are otherwise, you are still entitled to an audience with any you might desire to speak with. But, that takes real chutzpah. Sure, it's easy to sit here and surf n snipe, but it's another thing altogether to take your issues to city hall. If you have a paper and pen, and a stamp, you have everything you need to initiate a real dialogue.

However: It would be highly advisable to first seriously evaluate the accuracy and importance of your issues, so as to avoid being labeled a 'crackpot', as once this bias has been applied, your credibility and therefore your likelihood of being earnestly listened to diminishes rapidly.

As you have related in previous writings, I believe that you are quite familiar with this phenomenon, and I for one believe that the results you have obtained thus far are not a result of some conspiracy as you assert, but rather some(I'm being polite here) dogmatic bullheadedness on your part, which won't interest anyone in talking with you at all, much less an overworked bureaucrat. Good manners and patience are of the essence in all business dealings, and doubly so when dealing with those in public employ. All people are deserving of respect and courtesy, and from what I've seen of what you write, I'm not convinced that you can successfully carry out any of the four good relations traits I mentioned for any measurable length of time. I think you prefer to be crotchety, self-righteous, and groundlessly indignant, and perpetually at the ready to break into an argument at the drop of a hat, and I think you will find that if you can develop the capacity to reign in your temper about 4 notches, that your next dealings with a public agency might be much more rewarding.

Finally: For God's sake, Ray, just go take your eye test. It only takes 10 minutes, they'll cut your license, you'll be out the door and on your way in no time. Don't forget to smile for the picture, and use all 5 fingers when waving to local law enforcement....:)

Reply

"The Wolfman" (Wolfy@blackwolfents.com) wrote

Raymond Karczewski (arkent@arkenterprises.com) wrote:

Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 23:58:20 -0400

w: The process of Dualistic Thought and the rational behind it seems to be entirely appropiate for a forum about Mr. Karczewski. For those unfamiliar with the works of Ray it is his opinion that the general populous; both that of his own country and the populous of the internet in general; is under government mind-control.

rk: No question about it !! The long-term (going back to 1997) STONE WALL OF SILENCE surrounding this issue by the government and its mind controlling arm, the media, proves that out. The simple fact is they have no other alternative but to keep a tight lid on "Pandora's Box."

w: These agents of disinformation keep us under mind-control by the devious use of dualistic logic the classic example of which is "I want X - but Y". It is Ray's belief that only by breaking the bonds of these chains of dualistic thought that we can share in the collective christ conciousness.

rk: Your energy is like so many other superficial, speculative word mongers who prowl these newsgroups. You've got the "letter of the word" down pat, but you are sorely lacking in having a deeper grasp of their "essence" or "spirit." Hence you bandy about "empty rhetoric" easily recognizeable by other dumbed-down intellectual ignoramuses. You see such techniques at their zenith during election campaigns.

w: As a free-thinking individual who is neither a christ with amnesia, a government disinformation agent or a mindless autonoma I feel it is my duty to protect those among us; myself included; who think in a dualistic nature.

rk: Duty? Protect? From the get-go you unconsciously exhibit to the world the energy of fear and confusion which motivates and dominates your actions. You may sanitize your language in an attempt to mask such fear and confusion, but even you can see you have failed to do so.

w: I will in the following text attempt to show beyond reasonable doubt that all sane rational human beings who are well-adjusted to deal with reality think in a dualistic nature and that the reason for them so doing is not related to thegovernment or any form of mind-control; sinister or otherwise.

rk: Intelligence SEES. Ignorance THINKS! By the way, are you a lawyer or an aspiring wannabe? Your knee jerk use of such recognizeable obfuscatory legalese smacks of a practiced word twister.

w: Let us take the base statement of dualism. I want X but Y; and let us consider it in two parts.

rk: See what I mean? No matter what you do in promoting this tangential misdirection of yours, you shall only wind up with the company of your own empty words, mistaking them for the Truth. Rather shallow, isn't it?

w: First of all we want. We have a desire for something.

rk: Such desire based in dualism is already the beginning of conflict, is it not?

w: The human mind is a chaotic bubbling cauldron of ideas and concepts; some of which are plans, dreams and fantasies.

rk: My point exactly. So the question remains -- why do you defend your Hellish Intellect so? Why do you so proudly engage in such peremptory defense of your own chaotic, confused intellect? Such a waste of energy, is it not?

w: All of these plans and dreams we have bubbling away inside of us flag our concious for attention and will all eventually be dredged up to be properly considered. Some of these dreams and plans; especially the fantasies; will not be obtainable but they will be considered anyway.

rk: So much for go-nowhere, busy-work intellectualism, eh? You have just described the "normal" civilized, conditioned intellect.

w: When we consider each of these in our concious mind we will dismiss many of them almost immediately for practical reasons.

rk: So the thinker, the author of his/her thought, approves/dismisses the thought(s) they themselves have authored. Where does that leave the thinker who either inappropriately, mistakenly, or just plain foolishly (mis)uses the methodology of technical thinking in a futile attempt to resolve the nontechnical problems of life? It leaves them still confused, doesn't it?

w: You want to fly across the world but you can't afford the tickets. You want to have sex with the woman next door but she's married; and besides she's probably sleeping with her cat. This is the triumph of logic over desire.

rk: All you are proving, "wolfman," is that we (you and I) may use the same words, speak the same language at the "letter of the word" level, but we are not even in the same universe when it comes to communicating at the level of the "Spirit of the word."

w: Although you desire something you are capable of realising that merely desiring something is not enough to cause it to happen - nor to justify your desire for it; furthermore you realise that you can't always get what you want.

rk: Your manner of expression indicates one whose consciousness is a bundle of contradictions. With such lack of clarity, it's no wonder you have difficulty in manifesting a clear and simple reality and thus be a master of your life instead of a slave. What more do you need to serve as evidence of your own prideful ignorance and confusion?

w: This reasoning process is inherently dualistic. You want but for some practical reason you dismiss the desire; it is impossible to satisfy it so why continue to pursue it?

rk: Could it be the persistent lesson of life, which offers up more evidence of your lack of clarity, buttressed by your own prideful confusion?

w: To reason we must put both sides of an argument to ourselves; hence human minds have to be dualistic.

rk: In the limited context you present, you are (limitedly/relatively) correct in such conclusion. Hell, isn't it?

w: To not be dualistic is to expect to be able to achieve a desire merely because it is desirable; without taking note of how it may affect others and infringe upon their rights.

rk: See what I mean about tangential, misdirecting, sanitized gibberish?

w: You may desire to sleep with Pamela Lee Anderson but she does not want to sleep with you, forcing your desire would infringe upon Ms. nderson's rights therefore, assuming you to be a law abiding person, dualism must kick in. You deny yourself that desire.

w: This is not mind control but a simple process of reason. Dualism is not evidence of mind-control. There is no mind-control on the net. Dualism is due to reason. Reason is not due to mind-control. An attack on dualistic beings is an attack on reasonable beings. No reasonable being would attack reason.

rk: Now look back at the unconnected sanitized gibberish you have expressed above. You DEMONstrate the dualistic limitation of logic which finds itself impotent when dealing with the nondualistic essence of Truth.

w: Therefore we can only conclude that since Raymond has broken the bonds of dualism that he has also escaped reason and intellect; and that consequently Mr. Karczewski is neither a reasonable or intellectual being: and as such anything he says cannot be taken to be reasonable or sensible.

rk: Even a "reasonable" man would have to admit to himself that "reason" and "logic' is limited in its scope. What lies beyond such limitation is what the limited dualistic Intellect is incapable of grasping --TRUTH!! Now perhaps you understand the nature of BASSACKWARDS as it applies to the human intellect. So tell us, wolfman, what was the reason for your spending so much time in authoring this post only to say NOTHING?

w: Evidence bears up this assertion quite well so I think we can leave the proof there.

rk: Proof?? What Proof? Your closing comment below says it all, doesn't it?

w: QED: Reductio De Absurdum.

Reply

Mon, 14 May 2001 15:55:34 +0100

The Wolfman (Wolfy@blackwolfents.com)

"Raymond Karczewski" (arkent@internetcds.com) wrote in message

rk: >> No question about it !! The long-term (going back to 1997) STONE WALL OF SILENCE surrounding this issue by the government and its mind controlling arm, the media, proves that out. The simple fact is they have no other alternative but to keep a tight lid on "Pandora's Box."

w: > On a completely side note assuming the single letter abbreviation is my name then it is a shortening for a proper noun "Wolfy" not "wolfy" and I'd appreciate it if you could capatilize it. Yes, that's my pendantic whine for the day.

w: > I am lucky because I have actually worked in the media so that, unlike you (who I believe worked for the police service), when I talk about the media I don't talk out of my ass.

rk: Touched a nerve, did I?

w: Admittedly I have not worked for any nation-wide papers but I did, about two years back, have a regular column in a local York paper under the pseudonym "Striker". The laws governing area and national papers are, more or less, indentical and so I have a fair idea of what can and can't be printed. There are certain things you are not allowed to publish in papers such as anything libellous or things likely to incite racial hatred and so on; most of this is common sense and there aren't any real limits to what political commentary you are allowed to make.

w: > If you can write a well-reasoned article (and generally write articles which are likely to be read by the general populous) you can, in many papers, get an article attacking the government published. In fact there are whole magazines for anarchists (which has always made me wonder which anti-organisation person organises these magazines?) - if the press was really so tightly controlled by the government these simply would not be allowed to exist.

w; > But they do.

w: > Which leads us either to believe that the government is incredibly clever and competent in controlling them secretly; in which case what makes *you* and no-one else able to detect this fact;

rk: AWARENESS, SIMPLICITY, TRUTH!! Such is the nature of the living Christ State of Consciousness (not to be confused with the dead, blind, belief-bound, mythical "christ" promoted by religious mind controllers throughout the centuries).

w: > or that the press isn't the governments whipping boy after all.

rk: Perhaps I may answer you with an exerpt from my book "Journey Beyond Thought: Breaking the Bonds of the Conditioned Mind." It reads:

"Since man has existed on the Earth, there have been two fundamental ways in which he has been controlled by his leaders. This control over the mind has been accomplished by way of the Warrior and the Witchdoctor. The Warrior is exemplified by government with its imposition of fear into the mind through the coercive force of arms, injury, imprisonment and death. These control measures are implemented through its use of armies, police, and other coercive agencies. The Witchdoctor, the other half of the power structure, is clearly reflected in organized religions. These institutions instill fear through the use of myths, superstitions, legends, images, mysticism, and other psychological manipulative measures designed to distort the mind. Man has effectively been conditioned and controlled in his behavior by the use of both methods. In ancient times these methods were implemented through the art of story telling. In our present-day society, the conditioning of our minds is achieved through our schools, the arts, radio, TV, newspaper and magazine articles and ads.

rk: TRUTH IS TIMELESS, IS IT NOT?

w: >>> Having written some political commentary questioning the government at times and not having been attacked by the secret-service I'm guessing the latter.

rk: >> Your energy is like so many other superficial, speculative word mongers who prowl these newsgroups. You've got the "letter of the word" down pat, but you are sorely lacking in having a deeper grasp of their "essence" or "spirit." Hence you bandy about "empty rhetoric" easily recognizeable by other dumbed-down intellectual ignoramuses. You see such techniques at their zenith during election campaigns.

w: > Mr Karczewski, whilst it is very easy to call everyone who disagrees with you an ignoramus and call all opposing views "empty rhetoric" we may make more progress if you limit yourself to actually responding to the points made rather than ignoring them. This is merely a suggestion.

rk: An unnecessary one at that.

w: >>> As a free-thinking individual who is neither a christ with amnesia, a government disinformation agent or a mindless autonoma I feel it is my duty to protect those among us; myself included; who think in a dualistic nature.

rk: >> Duty? Protect? From the get-go you unconsciously exhibit to the world the energy of fear and confusion which motivates and dominates your actions. You may sanitize your language in an attempt to mask such fear and confusion, but even you can see you have failed to do so.

w: > What then am I afraid of? Of you? Of those who, you claim, are trying to control my mind? Sir, you have yet to demonstrate to me with factual evidence that anyone is controlling my mind - until you do so I see no reason to be afraid.

rk: There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see! The fact that you are so proud of your ignorance leaves me no alternative but to mirror such blindness to you. It is your inability to escape that which you see in the Mirror of Truth that is the source of your resentment.

w: > Let us assume that I am afraid then I must be afraid for a reason and in which case I would be aware of the mind control; and by your own admission to realise we are being controlled is to gain the ability to break that control. Surely then by that logic I am *not* under mind-control?

rk: All that you have demonstrated with the above comments is that at the very superficial level of conditioned intellectualism, it can be said that "IGNORANCE IS BLISS."

w: > Let us assume for a minute that, as you say, the whole world is under some form of government authorised mass mind-control - how did you manage to escape this control?

rk: UNDERSTANDING! AWARENESS! TRUTH! Such is the nature of Christ Consciousness.

w: > Surely you do not presume to in some way put yourself higher than the rest of humanity?

rk: The Infinite, nondualistic CHRIST STATE of CONSCIOUSNESS is neither superior nor inferior, but equal to all. It resonates with the unmistakable essence of ONENESS, of LOVE. Only in the state of conditioned duality does the conceptual dichotomy of greater and lesser exist. Unfortunately, ignoramuses who are conditioned almost from birth to adhere to class distinctions of greater and lesser find themselve incapable of relating to others as EQUALS. Those whose energy is not recognizable within the narrow parameters of their conditioned class identifications are regarded as either a Savior or a kook -- one to be worshipped, killed, or derided. I will let you figure out your own unfinished business when it comes to meeting another whom you do not understand.

rk: >> Intelligence SEES. Ignorance THINKS! By the way, are you a lawyer or an aspiring wannabe? Your knee jerk use of such recognizeable obfuscatory legalese smacks of a practiced word twister.

w: > I am not a lawyer nor am I studying to become one. Whilst the career of professional liar is an honorable one. . .

rk: "the career of professional liar is an honorable one. . .", eh? Only in a BASSACKWARD WORLD, ONLY IN A BASSACKWARD WORLD!! However, lawyers are not the only career held by, in your own words, "professional liars". Try "spin doctoring" newspaper columnists!!! Oh what a web is weaved when honorable lawyers/columnists practice to deceive, eh?

w: > it is not one I wish to pursue. I am completely overcome with the idea that someone could rationally claim that ignorance thinks.

rk: Then why not rise above the level of ignorance and with awareness see the TRUTH for yourself. Such a timeless event of insight is the RESURRECTION OF THE SPIRIT of DIVINE INTELLIGENCE.

w: > Ignorance is destroyed by gaining knowledge, thinking is part of gaining knowledge. If we only credit that which we can see as being real then things such as ... oh I don't know ... say bacteria become a fantasy. By pure cerebration we can establish that bacteria exist and construct a device (microscope) that will allow us to confirm the fact - but thinking comes first.

rk: THINKING is appropriate in dealing with problem solving at the level of the dead, aftermoment-based *technical realm.* THINKING, however, is inappropriate, if not utterly destructive, when dealing with nontechnical matters in the living moment of NOW.

rk: >> See what I mean? No matter what you do in promoting this tangential misdirection of yours, you shall only wind up with the company of your own empty words, mistaking them for the Truth. Rather shallow, isn't it?

w: > I was going to reply to it but it seems to be a verbose way of failing to make a point so I decided not to bother ... oh ... actually it seems I did bother ... never mind.

rk: It is difficult for one who bandies about slogans for a living to express oneself in depth, is it not? Unfortunately, most conditioned ignoramuses who have been trained/weaned on terse opinions/slogans of columnists have been psychologically keyed to react to such empty rhetoric. When they reach the precipice which lies at the limit of their intellect, they refuse go beyond in order to solve the *nontechnical* problem before them. Backing away with fear of the unknown they are required to face, they must resort to pridefully rationalizing and "legitimizing" their own *dumbed-down limitedness.* Bassackwards, wouldn't you say?

w: >>> First of all we want. We have a desire for something.

rk: >> Such desire based in dualism is already the beginning of conflict, is it not?

w: > To want only the achievable is to limit thought; surely not profitable for those who wish to be fully open and aware. I prefer not to clip the wings of my thoughts.

w: >>> The human mind is a chaotic bubbling cauldron of ideas and concepts; some of which are plans, dreams and fantasies.

rk: >> My point exactly. So the question remains -- why do you defend your Hellish Intellect so? Why do you so proudly engage in such peremptory defense of your own chaotic, confused intellect? Such a waste of energy, is it not?

w: > Because intellect has produced things which are to the gross benefit.

rk: Only in the technical realm can it rightfully be said that "a mind is a terrible thing to waste." In the psychological/spiritual realms, however, such a satanically (Opposer) driven intellect is a terrible thing to have. The Truth of such statement can be found in the present state of the *intellectually thought-based* world man has "invented" for himself. Hell, isn't it?

w: > The tools of mathematics, logic and science have brought us such trivial things as ... the lightbulb ... the telephone and the internet.

rk: All of which may be found within the technical realm, can they not?

w: > Furthermore science shows us that the whole universe was born out of chaos - and eventually must return to it (entropy) - surely if chaos makes up the basic building blocks then we might as well come to understand it?

rk: It is folly to mistake scientific theory for TRUTH. But then again, what else can be expected to arise out of prideful IGNORANCE, eh?

rk: >> So much for go-nowhere, busy-work intellectualism, eh? You have just described the "normal" civilized, conditioned intellect.

w: > Yes, I have just talked about intellectual reasoning. It works by a create and filter method ... the point is however that it CREATES.

rk: Only a rank ignoramus confuses creation with invention, eh?

w: > This is what logic and intellect are primarily about.

rk: Precisely!! In the aftermoment-based, unaware, dead, mechanical, technical realm, the operation of logic and intellect is perfectly suitable. In the psychological/spiritual realm, the living moment of NOW, the intellect does not come into existence. Only unaware ignoramuses, those who have lost their God-given state of unbounded awareness, are trapped in their aftermoment-based dualistic intellects and confuse the LIVING MOMENT of *NOW* with the DEAD AFTERMOMENT of the THOUGHT of *NOW.* You see, wolfman, you just lack the capacity to delve deeply beyond the prison cell of a conditioned intellect to go where no intellect has ever gone. You, like countless others, prefer to live life "filtered" through the dead aftermoment of dualistic thought -- UNAWARENESS -- than to live life with the nondualistic energy of AWARENESS.

rk: >> So the thinker, the author of his/her thought, approves/dismisses the thought(s) they themselves have authored.

w: Yep, that's the filter bit.

rk: Yes, Hell, isn't it?

rk: >> Where does that leave the thinker who either inappropriately, mistakenly, or just plain foolishly (mis)uses the methodology of technical thinking in a futile attempt to resolve the nontechnical problems of life? It leaves them still confused, doesn't it?

w: No, reasoning with yourself results in a different answer to the initial though, a more useful and practical answer which would not otherwise have been reached.

rk: >> All you are proving, "wolfman,"

w: > Capital letter, please.

rk: >> is that we (you and I) may use the same words, speak the same language at the "letter of the word" level, but we are not even in the same universe when it comes to communicating at the level of the "Spirit of the word."

w: > I am discussing words in terms of their meaning - if this is not the meaning you intended then chose some words that DO convey your meaning.

rk: >> Your manner of expression indicates one whose consciousness is a bundle of contradictions. With such lack of clarity, it's no wonder you have difficulty in manifesting a clear and simple reality and thus be a master of your life instead of a slave. What more do you need to serve as evidence of your own prideful ignorance and confusion?

w: > Maybe, but can you actually respond to the logic rather than merely insulting me?

rk: Insult is in the *limited* eye of the beholder. It is, more often than not, a simple matter of self judgment that takes place when the judgmental beholder comes to the frontiers of his/her limited intellect and finds him/herself wanting. Hell, is it not?

w: > Yes, that's a challenge.

w: > This reasoning process is inherently dualistic. You want but for some practical reason you dismiss the desire; it is impossible to satisfy it so why continue to pursue it?

rk: >> Could it be the persistent lesson of life, which offers up more evidence of your lack of clarity, buttressed by your own prideful confusion?

w: > So you would have us pursue that which is obviously impossible?

rk: Beyond the illusory realm of knowledge, the known, the conceptual, the "POSSIBLE," lies the REST OF LIFE -- the unknown, the Infinite, the unmanifested possible, or as you have stated, the "IMPOSSIBLE." The Spiritually sighted resonating in their STATE OF GRACE of unbounded AWARENESS, do not "PURSUE" life for they understand the folly of attempting to contain the "Infinite" within the tiny thimble of man's intellect. They merely act with AWARENESS!

w: > To reason we must put both sides of an argument to ourselves; hence human minds have to be dualistic.

rk: >> In the limited context you present, you are (limitedly/relatively) correct in such conclusion. Hell, isn't it?

w: > You concede then that the application of rational thinking must be dualistic which is what I was attempting to prove. Thankyou, Mr. Karczewski.

rk: A rather shallow victory for one to claim a victory over that which is stipulated at the get-go.

w: > To not be dualistic is to expect to be able to achieve a desire merely because it is desirable; without taking note of how it may affect others and infringe upon their rights.

rk: >>: See what I mean about tangential, misdirecting, sanitized gibberish?

w: > No, but I do see someone struggling to avoid actually responding to any of the points ...

w: >>> This is not mind control but a simple process of reason. Dualism is not evidence of mind-control. There is no mind-control on the net. Dualism is due to reason. Reason is not due to mind-control. An attack on dualistic beings is an attack on reasonable beings. No reasonable being would attack reason.

rk: >> Now look back at the unconnected sanitized gibberish you have expressed above. You DEMONstrate the dualistic limitation of logic which finds itself impotent when dealing with the nondualistic essence of Truth.

w: > They are connected very precisely - let me explain it for you:

w: > Dualism is, as I have established, a necessary part of reason therefore it is not due to mind-control. Since you are arguing that dualism is the basis of mind control you assertion must be false and therefore there is no mind control on the internet.

w: > Furthermore since reason is inherently linked to dualism (see earlier) an attack on dualism is an attack on reason. It is incredible and irrational for a reasonable person to attack reason.

w: > This all makes perfect sense.

rk: Perfect sense DOES NOT make it TRUE. It only resonates with the limited CONCEPT one's conditioned intellect HOLDS to be TRUE.

rk: >> Even a "reasonable" man would have to admit to himself that "reason" and "logic' is limited in its scope.

w: > If we abandon reason then what do we replace it with?

w: > There is nothing sane you CAN replace reason with; as for a reasonable man admitting that the world extends beyond the ability of reason to comprehend it: not so. The philosophies of objectivism, determinism and utilinarianism both state that reason is enough to fully comprehend any situation.

rk: >> What lies beyond such limitation is what the limited dualistic Intellect is incapable of grasping --TRUTH!!

w: > So the truth is not reasonable?

rk: TRUTH is beyond reason. However the *CONCEPT* of TRUTH must be REASONABLE.

rk: >> Now perhaps you understand the nature of BASSACKWARDS as it applies to the human intellect. So tell us, wolfman, what was the reason for your spending so much time in authoring this post only to say NOTHING?

w: > Capital letter, it's still a proper noun.

w: > I didn't say nothing, I have, by your own admission, proved that dualism is linked inherently to reason; and by extension since you have broken free from dualism your statements cannot be considered reasonable.

rk: Only by a flawed intellect tethered to its own limited conditioning. Like the programming of a computer, the conditioned intellect can be said to fall prey to the truism, "GARBAGE IN -- GARBAGE OUT!!

w: > Evidence bears up this assertion quite well so I think we can leave the proof there.

rk: >> Proof?? What Proof? Your closing comment below says it all, doesn't it?

w: > Reduction to Absurdity. A mathematical method of proof. You take a thesis; in this case that dualism is a product of mind control; and you reduce it to it's consequences. If the consequences are absurd then the thesis must be false.

w: > And hence you have a rigorous proof.

rk: Congratulations, wolfman, you've just demonstrated the bassackwardness of intellect when it attempts to assert dominion over that which is clearly beyond its ken!

-- Wolfy (Christopher Flather)

CEO & Electronic Administrator Black Wolf Entertainment

http://www.blackwolfents.com

Reply

Tue, 15 May 2001 23:03:27 GMT

The Wolfman (Wolfy@blackwolfents.com) wrote:

Raymond Karczewski (arkent@arkenterprises.com) wrote:

rk: Before I respond to the following taunts and challenges of a prideful intellectual bent upon contest rather than understanding, I deem it fit to lay the foundation upon which all whom are at different levels of awareness and consciousness cannot quibble over.

rk: That which is holy (holistic, nondualistic) is the Infinite Spirit of Intelligence. Some call it God, some Truth, some Life, some Christ. It is WHAT IS. It is beyond concept, beyond belief, beyond knowledge, beyond words. It can be directly apprehended in a moment of holistic silence (some call it insight), but it can never be grasped at the mere level of words

rk: The whole, the divine, contains the part, but the part, the fragment, the profane, the corrupted, can never contain the whole. To be holistic, atone with truth, is an epheremal state of being which can NEVER be proved through the medium of words and concepts, for its essence is well beyond such gross vibration of consciousness ruled by the Intellect. It can only be realized when the noisy clutter of Intellect COMES TO AN END in its incessant game playing. In other words, when the INTELLECTUALLY NOURISHED EGO DIES.

rk: Words are flawed and so become the weapons which create the division, the hatred, the violence which has made our human dominated world a HELL ON EARTH.

rk: Words, when used as instruments of power, are the source of all evil that CHRISTS in their sojourn on earth *do not resist,* but Mirror. The mirroring is, in essence, an exorcism. Yes -- that is what I said, an EXORCISM. Its basis in Truth allows it to clearly reflect that which stands before it. The Mirror of Truth is the means by which the Satanically-driven Intellect cannot escape itself through its own cleverness, projected self-judgments, and its incessant need for competition and illusory conquests.

rk: The Mirror of Truth need do nothing but reflect that which stands before it. All fragmented poseurs are seen by others and themselves for what they are, not what their illusory, Satanically-driven Intellects would make them "think" they are. They stand naked before the mIrror, shorn of their cloak of hypocrisy. They see the truth of themselves, a revelation which cannot be shunted aside or misdirected with cleverness and talent for manipulating others through the venue of flawed language.

rk: As such, the Mirror of Truth, the Supreme Exorcist, is the NEGATOR of illusory IMAGES. It exposes the impotence of Satanic power promised to all who would sell their soul for the pittance of worldly power.

rk: The exorcism dissolves/negates the Satanic (Opposer) based hypocrisy which binds and walls off Hell-bound "civilized" individuals, preventing them from their own self-realization. The exorcism releases them from their psychological demons, even if just for a fleeting moment. It breaks the dualistic, hypnotic hold by which the Satan/Intellect worshipping individual is spellbound. Through such negation, the Satan/Intellect-worshipping poseur cannot escape his/her fate.

rk: A Christ will engage in such an exorcism when the individual being exorcized is ready for a fundamental change to occur and/or when others who may be watching on will benefit by such explosive, ego-destructive interaction. A Christ will therefore either walk away from one who is not yet ready for change, as he/she understands the wisdom of "resist not evil." A Christ may also tarry with such an individual for the purpose of demonstrating to onlookers who may indeed be ready for such change to manifest in their lives.

rk: Having said this, let me make one point clear for all who have the eyes to see and the ears to hear. ALL WHO LIVE LIFE IN THEIR SATANICALLY-RULED CONDITIONED INTELLECTS, desiring to be "gods" in their own right, are petty, fragmented, ego-driven IGNORAMUSES.

rk: Why? Because they wrongly perceive the *limited* intellect with which they identify as being the *whole* of their existence. When the part, with its limitations based in knowledge, believes itself to be the unbounded Whole, it suffers from ignorance. Hence my use of the word IGNORAMUS. In that relative realm of intellectual dualism, even the exalted position of a worldy "genius" cannot escape its limited nature as that of an IGNORAMUS.

rk: Having said that, I invite you to read the following unedited response issued by wolfman. I have let the comments stand so that all may have a clear picture of an exorcism in progress without the need to resist EVIL.

w: >>> I am lucky because I have actually worked in the media so that, unlike you (who I believe worked for the police service), when I talk about the media I don't talk out of my ass.

rk: >> Touched a nerve, did I?

w: >Yes.

w: > People being deliberately ignorant is one of the few things which touches my nerves.

w: >>> Which leads us either to believe that the government is incredibly clever and competent in controlling them secretly; in which case what makes *you* and no-one else able to detect this fact;

rk: >>> AWARENESS, SIMPLICITY, TRUTH!! Such is the nature of the living Christ State of Consciousness (not to be confused with the dead, blind, belief-bound, mythical "christ" promoted by religious mind controllers throughout the centuries).

w: > Uh-huh.

w: > And you're the only person who partakes in the living Christ State of Conciousness?

w: >>> or that the press isn't the governments whipping boy after all.

rk: >> Perhaps I may answer you with an excerpt from my book "Journey Beyond Thought: Breaking the Bonds of the Conditioned Mind."

w: > My heart palpitates with anticipation.

rk: >> It reads:

rk: >> "Since man has existed on the Earth, there have been two fundamental ways in which he has been controlled by his leaders. This control over the mind has been accomplished by way of the Warrior and the Witchdoctor. The Warrior is exemplified by government with its imposition of fear into the mind through the coercive force of arms, injury, imprisonment and death. These control measures are implemented through its use of armies, police, and other coercive agencies.

w: > So there we are.

w: >It is then, would you agree, your assertion that the police services and justice systems of your country are inherently flawed? If said assertion was true and the government really were worried about you spreading the truth of the dualisitic bonds they had put us in why are you not currently rotting in a prison cell?

w: >It would seem to me that the government does use the police and other "coercive agencies" to control the behavior of specific individuals in society. It has been awarded this power of control by the people and through the people's mandate as according to constitutional law. As for an argument about whether constitutional law is in itself created for the protection of government and mind-control of the people; we won't go there.

w: >It has, however, been Mr. Karczewski's assertion that the government has acted outside the bounds of the constitution and he has started a petition to compell the Federal Bureau of Investigations to investigate the charges he has made against the United States Government. It is hard to understand why a person who asserts that the government is controlling law-enforcement agencies would compel such an agency ro investigate it's masters; surely logic would dictate that there would bea biased positive result?

w: > Let us then assume that the FBI did receive a complaint from Mr. Karczewski and his assertions concerning government mind control were not fallacious. Would it not then be beneficial for the FBI (if controlled by the government in the fashion described by Ray) to publicly investigate these allegations and find the government not-guilty? Such a public display would quash such rumors and permanently discredit Mr. Karczewski. Instead the FBI have replied that there has been no crime that fits into their investigatory procedure.

w: > One would presume this occurred after they realised that Raymond was actually being serious and this wasn't some humorous prank.

rk: >> The Witchdoctor, the other half of the power structure, is clearly reflected in organized religions. These institutions instill fear through the use of myths, superstitions, legends, images, mysticism, and other psychological manipulative measures designed to distort the mind. Man has effectively been conditioned and controlled in his behavior by the use of both methods.

w: > There has been; in most western countries; a seperation of church and state for some time despite the efforts of certain Christian groups which I shall not mention here. There are, however, some residual statements about politics left in a few religious texts from the times at whence they were written. The most notable one that springs to mind is Paul's biblical assertion that rulers are appointed by God. In a country that was founded by puritans and catholics it is not surprising that some trace of religion is left echoing in the hallowed halls of state.

w: >This is best shown in the statement: "God bless America"; some would prefer Allah to bless it.

w: >America is now, however, a polytheistic (sp?) society and some of these religions (most notably wicca, shamanism and paganism; I suspect the same may be true for satanism but I have not studied it's tenets in the same detail) are impossible to use to enforce the divine right of an elected leadership as most have the power of the individual entrenched as the highest power (control of self rather than external self).

w: >Even the most religious of those in America have now come to realise that George W. Bush was not appointed to God; he was elected with a very close election. He is America's servant; America is not his servant. Religion is now; effectively; seperated from state.

rk: >> In ancient times these methods were implemented through the art of story telling. In our present-day society, the conditioning of our minds is achieved through our schools, the arts, radio, TV, newspaper and magazine articles and ads.

w: >Ask Mr. Bush if he authorised me to call him an idiot and a fool, his economic policy is an insensible joke - despite political wet-dreams you cannot cut tax and raise public services it's against basic economic principles.

w: >If people like me in the media can get away with saying things like that, and we do, and we can get away with printing cartoons of him drunk and with a gun in each hand, which we do, I find it hard to believe that this administration has more than an advisory touch on the press.

w: >Actually, Raymond, I'll let you into a little secret. Governments have come to really hate the press. With a passion. We tend to find out dirty little secrets because we're scum who just want to be able to sell the next issue. Personally I don't give a damn where Ms. Lewinsky keeps President Clinton's cigarettes but if an editor thinks it'll sell a story there'll be someone there to cover it and I can guarantee you that within the hour there will be a negotiation with the white house as they desperately try to cover it up.

w: > The government does not control the press, Mr. Karczewski, and hasn't for a long time: money controls the press. The press is; on the whole; in America a self-regulated industry.

rk: >> TRUTH IS TIMELESS, IS IT NOT?

w: >Yes, the truth is. Unfortunately your "truth" isn't actually true.

w: >>> Mr Karczewski, whilst it is very easy to call everyone who disagrees with you an ignoramus and call all opposing views "empty rhetoric" we may make more progress if you limit yourself to actually responding to the points made rather than ignoring them. This is merely a suggestion.

rk: >> An unnecessary one at that.

w: >If it persuades you to actually answer the points it will have served it's purpose very well.

w: >>> What then am I afraid of? Of you? Of those who, you claim, are trying to control my mind? Sir, you have yet to demonstrate to me with factual evidence that anyone is controlling my mind - until you do so I see no reason to be afraid.

rk: >> There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see! The fact that you are so proud of your ignorance leaves me no alternative but to mirror such blindness to you. It is your inability to escape that which you see in the Mirror of Truth that is the source of your resentment.

w: >Who do I resent?

w: >Mr. Karczewski, I am a simple man, I will not believe that my mind is under control until you can provide some solid factual evidence. Merely telling me I am unable to see what state I am myself in is not evidence; do you or do you not have any evidence you can show me?

w: > Believing that you are under control of some higher power with no evidence is the beginnings of paranoia and I will not be led that way without adequate proof. Now, Mr. Karczewski, can you here and now demonstrate to me that I am under mind control in the same way that I demonstrated to you that dualism is an inevitable product of reasoning?

w: >>> Let us assume that I am afraid then I must be afraid for a reason and in which case I would be aware of the mind control; and by your own admission to realise we are being controlled is to gain the ability to break that control. Surely then by that logic I am *not* under mind-control?

rk: >> All that you have demonstrated with the above comments is that at the very superficial level of conditioned intellectualism, it can be said that "IGNORANCE IS BLISS."

w: > So, Mr. Karczewski, since my fear is by your own acknowledgement not from the knowledge I am under some form of devious mind-control whatprecisely is the source of this fear?

w: >>> Let us assume for a minute that, as you say, the whole world is under some form of government authorised mass mind-control - how did you manage to escape this control?

rk: >> UNDERSTANDING! AWARENESS! TRUTH! Such is the nature of Christ Consciousness.

w: > You claim then, Ray, that you have a unique level of understanding and awareness above and beyond that of your fellow man? Does this not strike you as being overwhelmingly arrogant?

w: >> > Surely you do not presume to in some way put yourself higher than the rest of humanity?

rk: >> The Infinite, nondualistic CHRIST STATE of CONSCIOUSNESS is neither superior nor inferior, but equal to all. It resonates with the unmistakable essence of ONENESS, of LOVE. Only in the state of conditioned duality does the conceptual dichotomy of greater and lesser exist. Unfortunately, ignoramuses who are conditioned almost from birth to adhere to class distinctions of greater and lesser find themselve incapable of relating to others as EQUALS. Those whose energy is not recognizable within the narrow parameters of their conditioned class identifications are regarded as either a Savior or a kook -- one to be worshipped, killed, or derided. I will let you figure out your own unfinished business when it comes to meeting another whom you do not understand.

w: >TRANSLATION OF LONG-WINDED PARAGRAPH: Yes. Because you are all ignoramuses who do not understand.

w: >Sir, to put yourself above your fellow man can only be seen as the most pretentious arrogance and self-inflation possible. I, at least, salute you for the level of your delusions of grandeur.

w: >>> I am not a lawyer nor am I studying to become one. Whilst the career of professional liar is an honorable one. . .

rk: >> "the career of professional liar is an honorable one. ..",eh? Only in a BASSACKWARD WORLD, ONLY IN A BASSACKWARD WORLD!!

w: >I sense some bitterness about failing to become a lawyer.

rk: >> However, lawyers are not the only career held by, in your own words, "professional liars". Try "spin doctoring" newspaper columnists!!! Oh what a web is weaved when honorable lawyers/columnists practice to deceive, eh?

w: >There are a large number of my articles available at my website: http://www.blackwolfents.com/wolfy/

w: >I challenge Mr. Karczewski to find any article where I have not told what I perceive to be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It is my assertion that he will be unable too.

w: >I have great pride in my journalistic integrity, Mr. Karczewski, and I find it ironic that someone who would talk so easily about libel in Jordan Quinn's (IceNine) show would be so quick to make a statement that is actually libellous under law in that it could damage my career.

w: >Luckily rather than state I am going to issue a lawsuit and can merelysay that you are too ignorant of my works to make such an assertion.

w: >> > it is not one I wish to pursue. I am completely overcome with the idea that someone could rationally claim that ignorance thinks.

rk: >> Then why not rise above the level of ignorance and with awareness see the TRUTH for yourself. Such a timeless event of insight is the RESURRECTION OF THE SPIRIT of DIVINE INTELLIGENCE.

w: >Because I prefer to maintain a reasonable position that can be backed with firm evidence and a rational viewpoint. You have yet to demonstrate to me that the assertions you have made are based in fact and the conclusions you have drawn from them are rational.

rk: >> THINKING is appropriate in dealing with problem solving at the level of the dead, aftermoment-based *technical realm.* THINKING, however, is inappropriate, if not utterly destructive, when dealing with nontechnical matters in the living moment of NOW.

w: >You would have us act irrationally in the moment, then, Mr. Karczewski?

rk: >> It is difficult for one who bandies about slogans for a living to express oneself in depth, is it not? Unfortunately, most conditioned ignoramuses who have been trained/weaned on terse opinions/slogans of columnists have been psychologically keyed to react to such empty rhetoric.

w: > Sir, I can assure you that I have no trouble in expressing myself or my ideas. However for me to argue a point there must have first been a point to argue. Your statement was a long-winded way of evading a point and did not contain any real content to answer. My statement was designed to draw the readers attention to your attempts to dodge the original point. Perhaps, Ray, we would progress in this discussion much faster if your texts were to actually contain the answers to the questions I put to you rather than an evasion of them.

rk: >> When they reach the precipice which lies at the limit of their intellect, they refuse go beyond in order to solve the *nontechnical* problem before them. Backing away with fear of the unknown they are required to face, they must resort to pridefully rationalizing and "legitimizing" their own *dumbed-down limitedness.* Bassackwards, wouldn't you say?

w: >I have yet to retreat, Ray, I am standing here asking you to explain how your viewpoint can be considered to be rational and based in fact. If you are asking us to believe you assertions on blind faith then you can never expect anyone to take you seriously. The harsh reality is, Mr. Karczewski, that you have no facts; you are skilled at avoiding having to answer questions as to your evidence and deeply entrenched in your own arrogance, pride and paranoia.

w: >Now, Mr. Karczewski, I shall ask you again. Can you or can you not provide me with any solid evidence that the members of this newsgroup are under government mind control?

w: >>> Because intellect has produced things which are to the gross benefit.

rk: >> Only in the technical realm can it rightfully be said that "a mind is a terrible thing to waste." In the psychological/spiritual realms, however, such a satanically (Opposer) driven intellect is a terrible thing to have.

w: >It is, then, Ray your assertion that we should be teaching our children something other than a rational system of thought based on reality and fact?

w: >If this is a serious assertion, Mr. Karczewski, then it can only be said that you are a dangerously confused human being.

rk: >> The Truth of such statement can be found in the present state of the *intellectually thought-based* world man has "invented" for himself. Hell, isn't it?

w: >Actually I'm quite happy in the city I'm living in.

w: >Is this perhaps a bitter outlash at society for the failings of your own life?

w: > I am sure your own misery in this society does not automatically extend to all the members thereof.

w: >>> The tools of mathematics, logic and science have brought us such trivial things as ... the lightbulb ... the telephone and the internet.

rk: >> All of which may be found within the technical realm, can they not?

w: >All of which you use for the gross betterment of your life. If this technology is so evil, Ray, then turn off your lights, switch off your heater, disconnect your computer and forget your car. Act, Ray, as you would without them - go into a wood and build a shelter and live happily ever after without this evil hanging over you.

w: > I get the feeling your reply won't be "Goodbye, I've been enlightened and am going to live in the woods!".

w: >Mr. Karczewski, you have grown comfortable in a world created for you by technically minded men, you continue to enjoy the fruits of their bounty as you state their way of thinking is wrong. This is pure hypocrisy.

w: >>> Furthermore science shows us that the whole universe was born out of chaos - and eventually must return to it (entropy) - surely if chaos makes up the basic building blocks then we might as well come to understand it?

rk: >> It is folly to mistake scientific theory for TRUTH. But then again, what else can be expected to arise out of prideful IGNORANCE, eh?

w: >It is more foolish to believe things based on blind faith without semblance of fact.

w: >>> Yes, I have just talked about intellectual reasoning. It works by a create and filter method ... the point is however that it CREATES.

rk: >>: Only a rank ignoramus confuses creation with invention, eh?

w: >create verb [T] to cause (something) to exist, or to make (something new or imaginative)

w: >invent verb [T] to design or create (something that did not exist before)

w: >These are the definitions; to me they read the same. Would Mr. Karczewski care to illustrate his point by informing this group of the difference?

w: >> > This is what logic and intellect are primarily about.

rk: >> Precisely!!

w: >Then you concede that to think in a dualistic nature is to create and to invent. It is perhaps then your assertion that humanity should refrain from creation?

rk: >> In the aftermoment-based, unaware, dead, mechanical, technical realm, the operation of logic and intellect is perfectly suitable. In the psychological/spiritual realm, the living moment of NOW, the intellect does not come into existence.

w: > It is your assertion then that man should disregard his intellect!?

w: >Sir, there is no "now". Every moment can be predicted several moments before it's happening by any reasonable competent observer. It is between that time we observe an event is to happen and the time that the event does happen that we use our intellect to decide what to do in reaction to the event. To react in a reasoned and intellectual fashion is always more appropriate than to react purely based on instinct for that, sir, is what any instant reaction is based on.

w: > Not God, not a christ conciousness, not a spiritual awareness but a natural in-built system of defence mechanisms called instinct which are hard-wired into the top of the brain just under the base of the brain. They do not require thought nor spirituality to explain them.

rk; >> Only unaware ignoramuses, those who have lost their God-given state of unbounded awareness, are trapped in their aftermoment-based dualistic intellects and confuse the LIVING MOMENT of *NOW* with the DEAD AFTERMOMENT of the THOUGHT of *NOW.* You see, wolfman, you just lack the capacity to delve deeply beyond the prison cell of a conditioned intellect to go where no intellect has ever gone. You, like countless others, prefer to live life "filtered" through the dead aftermoment of dualistic thought -- UNAWARENESS -- than to live life with the nondualistic energy of AWARENESS.

w: >I prefer to live a life based on rational cohesive thoughts based in intelligence, logic, intellect and reason rather than rely on an in-built electro-neurological reaction. That, sir, is what makes instant decisions not an essence of spirituality.

w: >>> Yep, that's the filter bit.

rk: >> Yes, Hell, isn't it?

w: >No, because it allows for a deeper more rational and intelligent thought.

w: >> > I am discussing words in terms of their meaning - if this is not the meaning you intended then chose some words that DO convey your meaning.

w: > shall assume by the lack of reaction that either you are incapable of self-expression; ironic since this was a charge you levelled against me in this very reply; or that my analysis was correct and this was merely a diversionary tactic. Neither one draws a particular bright picture of you.

w: >>> Maybe, but can you actually respond to the logic rather than merely insulting me?

rk: >> Insult is in the *limited* eye of the beholder. It is, more often than not, a simple matter of self judgment that takes place when the judgmental beholder comes to the frontiers of his/her limited intellect and finds him/herself wanting. Hell, is it not?

w: >You have accused me of lying to my readers.

w: >You have questioned the limits of my understanding.

w: >You have called me an ignoramus.

w: > Sir, these ARE insults, your dismissal of them merely serves to demonstrate your, to borrow a phrase, BACKASSWARDS way of thinking.

w: >> > Yes, that's a challenge.

w: > And one, I may add, you have quite failed to answer.

w: >>> So you would have us pursue that which is obviously impossible?

rk: >> Beyond the illusory realm of knowledge, the known, the conceptual, the "POSSIBLE," lies the REST OF LIFE -- the unknown, the Infinite, the unmanifested possible, or as you have stated, the "IMPOSSIBLE." The Spiritually sighted resonating in their STATE OF GRACE of unbounded AWARENESS, do not "PURSUE" life for they understand the folly of attempting to contain the "Infinite" within the tiny thimble of man's intellect. They merely act with AWARENESS!

w: > TRANSLATION: Yes, I would have you waste your time with the impossible.

w: >Whilst you continue to pointlessly pursue the impossible, Raymond, I will be taking real and measurable steps for the betterment of my own life. That's REAL empowerment, Ray. You can't help people with words, but you can help them by doing real things in the real world.

w: >>> You concede then that the application of rational thinking must be dualistic which is what I was attempting to prove. Thankyou, Mr. Karczewski.

rk: >> A rather shallow victory for one to claim a victory over that which is stipulated at the get-go.

w: >Considering it was the whole point of the post it is not only shallow it is the crucial victory. It is the victory which allows me to confidently state that since dualism is the logical consequence of a reasoned thought process it is NOT a sign of mind-control.

w: >Now, with the knowledge that the existance of dualism is not due to mind-control, can you prove to me that there is any level of authorised mind-control by giving me some real-world facts; or are your baseless accusations merely the results of grandiose self-delusion and paranoia?

rk: >> Perfect sense DOES NOT make it TRUE. It only resonates with the limited CONCEPT one's conditioned intellect HOLDS to be TRUE.

w: >Completely correct. However an argument based in logic and sense is more likely to be true than one based on mere assertion which is, as yet, all you have managed to provide. Now, Mr. Karczewski, once again Ichallenge you. Can you demonstrate that your assertions are true based in fact, logic and intellect?

w: >> > So the truth is not reasonable?

rk: >> TRUTH is beyond reason. However the *CONCEPT* of TRUTH must be REASONABLE.

w: >So from this we can conclude that the truth is unreasonable.

w: > If the truth is unreasonable then by definition it cannot be understood by the human mind since reason is the process by which the human mind works. It is then, Ray, your assertion that this truth you understand cannot be understood by yourself.

w: >Therefore your truth is fallacious through proof by contradiction.

w: >So can we then conclude that you do not yourself understand this truth?

w: >For if you do by your own assertions it becomes a false truth.

rk: >> Only by a flawed intellect tethered to its own limited conditioning. Like the programming of a computer, the conditioned intellect can be said to fall prey to the truism, "GARBAGE IN -- GARBAGE OUT!!

w: >A rule founded in logic.

w: >I thought you disapproved of reason and logic, Mr. Karczewski?

w: >> > Reduction to Absurdity. A mathematical method of proof. You take a thesis; in this case that dualism is a product of mind control; and you reduce it to it's consequences. If the consequences are absurd then the thesis must be false.

w: >> > And hence you have a rigorous proof.

rk: >> Congratulations, wolfman, you've just demonstrated the bassackwardness of intellect when it attempts to assert dominion over that which is clearly beyond its ken!

w: >I have just demonstrated that you are unable to answer any of the points I made satisfactorily.

w: >There is however one chance to redeem yourself, Ray. Prove to me, and to the rest of this group, that your assertion we are all under government mind-control is true by giving me the facts necessary to make your case obvious - without reference to dualism which we have already proved is due to the process of reasoned logic and not due to any form of mind-control; government or otherwise.

w: >If you cannot do this then we can only assume that there are no facts and your assertions are borne of paranoia. Please don't make us draw that assumption.

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